1 edit
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkWhat I would do is not really relevant to the discussion, and actually, what you would do isn't actually the point either. But I digress; the angel would - of course, divine being and all that - recognise your disbelief immediately and convince you somehow that he was real. It IS an angel, not a figment. Your god is commanding you to do this. You are entering the age of a brand new testament, and you are to be one of the soldiers of the lord. Still Immoral?
Hypothetically I wouldn't do it because I would hypothetically understand that I am living in the times after the new testament and not during the old testament. So I would hypothetically dismiss it as a hallucination. How about you?
Originally posted by avalanchethecatGalatians 1
What I would do is not really relevant to the discussion, and actually, what you would do isn't actually the point either. But I digress; the angel would - of course, divine being and all that - recognise your disbelief immediately and convince you somehow that he was real. It IS an angel, not a figment. Your god is commanding you to do this. You are ...[text shortened]... age of a brand new testament, and you are to be one of the soldiers of the lord. Still Immoral?
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
Thanks for providing an opportunity to quote the Bible.
1 edit
Originally posted by avalanchethecatAvalanchethecat, are you having a hard time getting an answer to this question?
Let me take a crack.
an angel appears to you clothed in fiery raiment and respendent in heavenly glory. Suppose this angel tells you that in order to prepare a body for the next coming of christ and thus the last battle, you must embark on a career of wild and reckless slaughter of innocents. He (or she, whatever) insists that it is imperative that you inflict as much pain as you can upon the holy victims, and that you are encouraged, nay, required to enjoy your divinely ordained task. One of your victims, if you can reap enough pleasure from the act and inflict enough pain on the victim, may be suitable to be raised as the next coming.
Still morally wrong?
I would probably ask such a being if he had been talking to a fellow named avalanchthecat lately. What he requests sounds crazy like something avalanchthecat might imagine.
It doesn't seem to pass the smell test.
1.) There is nothing in the Bible supporting that I need to do something to obtain another physical body. I do need sanctification, resurrection, and transfiguration for the body that I have.
I'm sorry Mr. Angelic Being, what you explain doesn't line up with what God had told us in His New Testament.
2.) If we can get beyond that request, why would God want me to embark on a "career" of such behavior ?
Granted, God commanded on an occasion or two or more to not spare some abominable Canaanites. These specific commands were far from a "career". In fact the Hebrew kings had a reputation of being "merciful kings."
First Kings 20:31
King James Bible
And his servants said unto him, Behold now, we have heard that the kings of the house of Israel are merciful kings: let us, I pray thee, put sackcloth on our loins, and ropes upon our heads, and go out to the king of Israel: peradventure he will save thy life.
I mean, though I'd grant some instances of God commanding a full vanquishing of the foes of the theocratic nation, it was such a "career" of regularity that it became their hallmark.
Why then are you asking me to embark on a prolonged "career" like this ?
Are you getting your instructions from some Internet atheist type ?
3.) Though I can think of an instance or two of God telling the theocratic nation of Israel not to pity in their vanquishing, I never saw any command to purposely prolong pain. You're commanding something that has no corresponding parallel in even the book of Joshua or any other Old Testament book.
Paul told the Galatians that even if an angel should preach another Gospel to them which was not preached by him and his apostles, let such an angel be accursed.
"But if even we or an angel out of heaven should announce to you a gospel beyond that which we have announced to you, let him be accursed." (Gal. 1:8)
Why would I obey your bizarre instructions if even an angel preaching a apostate gospel message should not be listened to ? Your splendid appearance just isn't enough for me to risk being deceived.
I mean surely you must have heard the New Testament warn us that Satan's messenger could come to people as " an angel of light. "
" ... Satan himself transfigures himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if also his ministers transfigure themselves into ministers of righteousness. whose send will be acording to their works." (2 Cor. 11:14,15)
Were you expecting me to be swept away by the visual splendor? Maybe you didn't see how God warned us that the False Prophet comes at the end of the age appearing as a lamb but with the voice of a dragon.
I mean, your appearance is one thing but in your words I can smell the nature of the Devil.
4.) What is this nonsense about I am required to enjoy my divine task ? That doesn't sound like my God at all.
Where is this "Thou Shalt ENJOY punishing someone ...." anywhere as a requirement from God ? Where is there some requirement that justice is not done unless there is enjoyment on the part of the executioner ?
Too much in my being intuitive tells me that this is wrong.
And too much of it doesn't pass the spiritual smell test of my Christian conscience.
This is morally wrong, I'm pretty sure.
Originally posted by EladarOoo scary
Galatians 1
[b] I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gosp ...[text shortened]... d, let them be under God’s curse!
Thanks for providing an opportunity to quote the Bible.[/b]
Originally posted by sonshipTLDR, and nope, it really was an angel, really sent by god, sweeping away all that came before in preparation for the end times. There's a precedent for that you know. And you've just damned the world to an eternity without god, well done!
Avalanchethecat, are you having a hard time getting an answer to this question?
Let me take a crack.
[quote] an angel appears to you clothed in fiery raiment and respendent in heavenly glory. Suppose this angel tells you that in order to prepare a body for the next coming of christ and thus the last battle, you must embark on a career of wild and re ...[text shortened]... e spiritual smell test of my Christian conscience.
This is morally wrong, I'm pretty sure.
Let's deal a little more with the intrinsic stupidity of this little illustration.
Suppose this angel tells you that in order to prepare a body for the next coming of christ and thus the last battle, you must embark on a career of wild and reckless slaughter of innocents.
This sounds more like a story of Captain Sinbad or Hercules.
ie " You must perform this fantastical TASK. Then you will be rewarded."
The Bible is not Jason and the Argonauts tasked with a trial to steal a golden fleece or slay the hydra.
There will be Christian overcomers and Old Testament overcomers who will accompany Christ in the battle of Armageddon. But the honor of doing so is because of a life of patient obedience and regular denying of the fallen nature in favor of living the empowering grace of God.
Everything about your scenario has nothing to do with God working from the inside out of a person's soul over an extended period of time. Your supposedly clever scenario has nothing to do with reward because of a life-long or at least a prolonged life of walking righteously in oneness with Christ, by the power of Christ.
"Do this fantastical deed and you will qualify" is the silly characteristic of your hypothetical.
Sanctification is a process over a believer's spiritual life span. It is not the accomplishment of a single fantastical deed to prove one's mighty human ability.
If Jesus Christ commands me to slay some enemies with Him in His second coming it will be because I have had a life of slaying the enemy in my own being, faithfully, regularly, obediently by His grace.
If Christ seeks to be accompanied by victorious saints to crush the forces of Antichrist and his armies, it will be because they have lived a life of slaying their unbelief, their lust, their tempers, their self pity, their anxiety, their envy, their other sins, transgressions, and iniquities in themselves.
Its too bad you cannot see the picture in the Old Testament history and the caption underneath the picture in the New Testament denying of the fallen self in order to live by the indwelling Spirit of Christ Who has been born in the believer.
Originally posted by avalanchethecatYou may have been taking in too many computer games dude.
TLDR, and nope, it really was an angel, really sent by god, sweeping away all that came before in preparation for the end times. There's a precedent for that you know. And you've just damned the world to an eternity without god, well done!
Originally posted by EladarYeah, I disregard your scripture with the same confidence that you disregard that of other religions. Well, probably a little more actually, since you're obviously of a superstitious bent.
Not scary, just a warning against exactly what you brought up. Anyone who reads the Bible show be warned.
1 edit
Originally posted by sonshipYou're really struggling with the idea of a hypothetical situation aren't you? You just have to accept the premise, you're not allowed to try to wriggle out of it.
You may have been taking in too many computer games dude.
Edit: Also, you don't know the mind of your god. He was a vengeful and murderous tyrant once, maybe he will be again. Maybe tomorrow. You don't know any better than I do, you just know your book, which wasn't written by god.
1 edit
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkPlease link to where I said 'there may be scenarios where torturing a baby for fun is morally acceptable.'
Ghost: There are no moral absolutes.
If you can't, then retract your ridiculous statement.
I have said clearly that as far as my own morality is concerned such actions are not morally acceptable. However, due to there being no moral law giver, I can not speak for the morality of others, although your example is infantile and a slap in the face to the common morality of man.
Originally posted by Eladar"My hate for Iran goes back further than 9/11. We should have nuked it back in the Carter days."
Galatians 1
[b] I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gosp ...[text shortened]... d, let them be under God’s curse!
Thanks for providing an opportunity to quote the Bible.[/b]
That is what your morality amounts to.
Actually you are an adolescent fantasist and it is tiresome to see you infesting these forums.
Originally posted by avalanchethecatYou really don't understand. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.
Yeah, I disregard your scripture with the same confidence that you disregard that of other religions. Well, probably a little more actually, since you're obviously of a superstitious bent.
Originally posted by finneganThanks for your opinion.
"My hate for Iran goes back further than 9/11. We should have nuked it back in the Carter days."
That is what your morality amounts to.
Actually you are an adolescent fantasist and it is tiresome to see you infesting these forums.