Questions on morality

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
But your use of the words "morally unsound actions", is self determined. If your morals and standards are self-determined, then they are only true for you. If Hitlers morals are self-determined they are true for Hitler. How can you know that your self-determined morals are correct and Hitler's aren't, especially since it seems you are claiming that each person's moral truth is self determined.

I have already addressed all this - on this thread to a degree... but even more so here on Thread 171350 . If you don't like or don't understand ~ or don't even want to acknowledge ~ the answers and replies and viewpoints given, oh well. So be it.

Originally posted by FMF
So you believe it is possible you would condone Hitler's actions if it were not for your "current beliefs" in supernatural beings/Hebrew mythology etc.? Does the fact that I feel able to condemn Hitler's actions ~ and do so without subscribing to your beliefs in supernatural beings ~ make you think that you would also be able to condemn them even without resorti ...[text shortened]... to unilaterally declaring your own moral stances to be "absolute", "universal" and "objective"?

How would I know what I would or wouldn't condemn if my beliefs were different to what they are? I only know what I would condemn based on my current beliefs.

What I would like to know is why you condemn Hitler's beliefs if you believe that your beliefs are only true for you and his beliefs are true for him. If have not asked you this question before, so you couldn't possibly have answered it on another thread. So stop using that excuse.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
How would I know what I would or wouldn't condemn if my beliefs were different to what they are? I only know what I would condemn based on my current beliefs.

So you believe it is possible you would condone Hitler's actions if it were not for your "current beliefs" in supernatural beings/Hebrew mythology etc.? Does the fact that I feel able to condemn Hitler's actions ~ and do so without subscribing to your beliefs in supernatural beings ~ make you think that you would also be able to condemn them even without resorting [on an internet message board] to unilaterally declaring your own moral stances to be "absolute", "universal" and "objective"?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
What I would like to know is why you condemn Hitler's beliefs if you believe that your beliefs are only true for you and his beliefs are true for him. If have not asked you this question before, so you couldn't possibly have answered it on another thread. So stop using that excuse.

This angle of the discussion has already been asked about and answered over and over again. Please. If you don't accept my responses and viewpoints, just say so and move on. If you need to, just say so - and declare victory - but then move on.

Originally posted by FMF
So you believe it is possible you would condone Hitler's actions if it were not for your "current beliefs" in supernatural beings/Hebrew mythology etc.? Does the fact that I feel able to condemn Hitler's actions ~ and do so without subscribing to your beliefs in supernatural beings ~ make you think that you would also be able to condemn them even without resort ...[text shortened]... et message board] to declaring your moral stances to be "absolute", "universal" and "objective"?

Copy and paste the text where I said I believe it is possible I would condone Hitler's actions. Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Copy and paste the text where I said I believe it is possible I would condone Hitler's actions.

It's a question and it's an opportunity for you to clarify what you meant in the post to which the question was my reply..

Originally posted by FMF
It's a question and it's an opportunity for you to clarify what you meant in the post to which the question was my reply..

I currently believe in moral absolutes. Which means what is wrong for me is wrong for everyone. So because I believe it is wrong for me to kill millions of people I also believe it is wrong for Hitler to kill millions of people. So that is consistent with my current beliefs.

If on the other hand I were to hold your beliefs that there are no moral absolutes, it would mean what is wrong for me is not wrong for everyone else. Which would mean if I believed it is wrong for me to kill millions of people I wouldn't be able to say it is wrong for Hitler to kill millions of people because that wouldn't be consistent with my belief that what is wrong for me is not wrong for everyone else.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk

I currently believe in moral absolutes. Which means what is wrong for me is wrong for everyone. So because I believe it is wrong for me to kill millions of people I also believe it is wrong for Hitler to kill millions of people. So that is consistent with my current beliefs.

If on the other hand I were to hold your beliefs that there are no moral absolutes, it would mean what is wrong for me is not wrong for everyone else. Which would mean if I believed it is wrong for me to kill millions of people I wouldn't be able to say it is wrong for Hitler to kill millions of people because that wouldn't be consistent with my belief that what is wrong for me is not wrong for everyone else.

OK, great. Here is your viewpoint stated once and for all [not for the first time, but never mind that] and I understand it. I acknowledge what you are saying. I - as you know - have a different perspective, which I feel I have stated and explained clearly [over and over again, but never mind that] and which you are aware of. So we disagree. And we have no option other than to agree to disagree.

Originally posted by FMF
[b]I currently believe in moral absolutes. Which means what is wrong for me is wrong for everyone. So because I believe it is wrong for me to kill millions of people I also believe it is wrong for Hitler to kill millions of people. So that is consistent with my current beliefs.

If on the other hand I were to hold your beliefs that there are no moral absolute ...[text shortened]... d which you are aware of. So we disagree. And we have no option other than to agree to disagree.

Would you ever consider the possibility that moral absolutes exist?

Originally posted by FMF
[b]I currently believe in moral absolutes. Which means what is wrong for me is wrong for everyone. So because I believe it is wrong for me to kill millions of people I also believe it is wrong for Hitler to kill millions of people. So that is consistent with my current beliefs.

If on the other hand I were to hold your beliefs that there are no moral absolute ...[text shortened]... d which you are aware of. So we disagree. And we have no option other than to agree to disagree.

Fair enough, do you at least understand why your position doesn't make sense to me?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Fair enough, do you at least understand why your position doesn't make sense to me?

Of course I understand why my position doesn't make sense to you. I have a pretty detailed understanding of what it is like to be superstitious and to be convinced of the "truth" of supernatural things.

And to be fair [to me] I think I have stated words to the effect of... I know where you are coming from on all this... literally dozens of times in our "conversations" over the last 8 months or so.

However, unfortunately, whether it's some sort of misanthropy and/or mischief on your part, or if it's some sort of intellectual/integrity impairment that you suffer from, you just seem to ignore a lot of what people say. Including me.

Originally posted by FMF
Of course I understand why my position doesn't make sense to you. I have a pretty detailed understanding of what it is like to be superstitious and to be convinced of the "truth" of supernatural things.

And to be fair [to me] I think I have stated words to the effect of... I know where you are coming from on all this... literally dozens of times in o ...[text shortened]... impairment that you suffer from, you just seem to ignore a lot of what people say. Including me.

According to the nature of logic a belief is either logical or it isn't. Logic is not influenced by superstitions. You cannot expect me to accept an illogical argument or belief. If you want to, you are free to do so.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
According to the nature of logic a belief is either logical or it isn't. Logic is not influenced by superstitions. You cannot expect me to accept an illogical argument or belief. If you want to, you are free to do so.

Do you believe you are revealing something new about yourself to me here with this comment?

Originally posted by FMF
Do you believe you are revealing something new about yourself to me here with this comment?

You would probably be in a better position to judge that. Do you believe something that is illogical can be true?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Do you believe something that is illogical can be true?

Give me a scenario.