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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. 21 Jul '18 06:06 / 1 edit
    Matthew 18:8
    And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.

    To any Christian here willing to step up...is this instruction by Jesus Christ to be taken literally or is it a metaphor?
  2. 21 Jul '18 06:24 / 1 edit
    Sonship has claimed this is a trick question, I’m not sure why, but I think it’s because if he admits it’s a metaphor then it’s the end of him using “the words of Jesus” as evidence to support the literal eternal torture of billions of people by Jesus...and if he claims it is literal, then that makes him a Christian nutcase doesn’t it.

    And so we wait, as the desperate need to keep eternal suffering alive and burning goes on.
  3. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    21 Jul '18 06:39 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Sonship has claimed this is a trick question, I’m not sure why, but I think it’s because if he admits it’s a metaphor then it’s the end of him using “the words of Jesus” as evidence to support the literal eternal torture of billions of people by Jesus...and if he claims it is literal, then that makes him a Christian nutcase doesn’t it.

    And so we wait, as the desperate need to keep eternal suffering alive and burning goes on.
    There were a series of NINE verses that a poster posted.
    You asked should those passages be taken literally.

    That is what I said was a trick question.

    I view them as nine passages containing more than one kind of literary device (for lack of a better expression at the moment).

    The list was John 3:36; Rom. 2:5; Rev. 14:10; Matt. 18:8; Matt. 25:41; Matt. 25:46; Jude 7; Matt. 5:22; Luke 12:5.

    What I said was a trick question was to challenge "Are these to be taken literally?" I said they are to be taken at face value.
  4. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    21 Jul '18 06:45 / 1 edit
    Some discussion of the issue by Gregory Koukle
    (From Stand To Reason )

    Greg Koukl - Is the Bible Literal? Part 1 of 2

    YouTube : =BibleLiterally
  5. 21 Jul '18 06:55 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @sonship
    I view them as nine passages containing more than one kind of literary device (for lack of a better expression at the moment).
    Is Matthew 18:8 an instruction by Jesus which is literal or metaphorical?

    It’s a straightforward question sonship and I refer you to the second post in this thread for the reason why you won’t be unequivocal.
  6. 21 Jul '18 06:56 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Some discussion of the issue by Gregory Koukle
    (From Stand To Reason )
    Greg Koukl - Is the Bible Literal? Part 1 of 2
    Start another thread on this and stop deflecting.
  7. Subscriber Tom Wolsey
    Aficionado of Prawns
    21 Jul '18 07:08
    Since we already know that neither the hand nor the foot can cause us to sin, I think this should be taken metaphorically.
  8. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    21 Jul '18 07:10 / 1 edit
    sonship can smell danger ~ rather like a Kelpien. 🙂
  9. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    21 Jul '18 07:12
    Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
    Since we already know that neither the hand nor the foot can cause us to sin, I think this should be taken metaphorically.
    Wouldn't a cut-off hand or cut-off foot literally be a stern note-to-self about "sin" in the future?
  10. 21 Jul '18 07:15
    Originally posted by @fmf
    sonship can smell danger ~ rather like a Kelpien. 🙂
    The ganglia are twitching
  11. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    21 Jul '18 07:17
    Originally posted by @sonship
    What I said was a trick question was to challenge "Are these to be taken literally?" I said they are to be taken at face value.
    Who defines "face value"?
  12. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    21 Jul '18 10:06
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Matthew 18:8
    [b]And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.


    To any Christian here willing to step up...is this instruction by Jesus Christ to be taken literally or is it a metaphor?[/b]
    I would say Yes it is literal. The instruction is to remove anything that hinders your entry into the Kingdom of God.
  13. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    21 Jul '18 10:16 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    I would say Yes it is literal. The instruction is to remove anything that hinders your entry into the Kingdom of God.
    "The instruction is to remove anything that hinders your entry into the Kingdom of God."


    True, but for gravitas, that message is clearly being conveyed metaphorically.
  14. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    21 Jul '18 10:22 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    "The instruction is to remove anything that hinders your entry into the Kingdom of God."


    True, but for gravitas, that message is clearly being conveyed metaphorically.
    I dont think so. Lets say a man has an uncontrollable urge to use his hands for evil, stealing, strangling people .. whatever. The point Jesus makes is that with hands that man will not enter the Kingdom of God but will be cast into the fire. Evil and sin is the hindrance to the Kingdom of God. Christians who think otherwise are deluded.

    Of course the first option would be to control himself, get some help etc. Failing that Jesus advises that he is better removing his hands .. literally.
  15. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    21 Jul '18 10:29
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    I dont think so. Lets say a man has an uncontrollable urge to use his hands for evil, stealing, strangling people .. whatever. The point Jesus makes is that with hands that man will not enter the Kingdom of God but will be cast into the fire. Evil and sin is the hindrance to the Kingdom of God. Christians who think otherwise are deluded.

    Of course the f ...[text shortened]... get some help etc. Failing that Jesus advises that he is better removing his hands .. literally.
    I don't think so. 😉

    Are the hands independent or governed by the mind and heart?