Quick question on Matthew 18:8

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I don't think so. 😉

Are the hands independent or governed by the mind and heart?

The mind. The heart pumps blood.. 🙂

Originally posted by @rajk999
The mind. The heart pumps blood.. 🙂

So it's the mind that sins, not the hand?


If that's the case, how will 'literally' cutting off the sinning hand be of benefit?

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
So it's the mind that sins, not the hand?


If that's the case, how will 'literally' cutting off the sinning hand be of benefit?

I would be difficult for the mind to tell the hands to steal if the man had no hands. I suppose he could find other ways to steal. The point remains that whatever hinders your entry into the Kingdom of God , have it removed... anything and everything. On the day of judgment there are no acceptable excuses, because in the end it boils down to two options - death or life.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Matthew 18:8
[b]And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.

To any Christian here willing to step up...is this instruction by Jesus Christ to be taken literally or is it a metaphor?[/b]

Lol you are such a joke. But hey you must be you.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
"The instruction is to remove anything that hinders your entry into the Kingdom of God."


True, but for gravitas, that message is clearly being conveyed metaphorically.

Is it literally a metaphor, or is it metaphorically literal?

Originally posted by @rajk999
I would be difficult for the mind to tell the hands to steal if the man had no hands. I suppose he could find other ways to steal. The point remains that whatever hinders your entry into the Kingdom of God , have it removed... anything and everything. On the day of judgment there are no acceptable excuses, because in the end it boils down to two options - death or life.

Complete agreement.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
So it's the mind that sins, not the hand?


If that's the case, how will 'literally' cutting off the sinning hand be of benefit?

By comparison the point made is that nothing in this life should keep you from God's
Kingdom. I've read stories where people have gone to those extremes attempting to
keep themselves from sinning. I believe Jesus was simply showing us by
comparison that even our own bodies in this life are not as important as missing out on
the life to come. That can be taken literally, but that said, I don't believe He was actually
instructing anyone to actually start removing body parts, so that I do believe is a
metaphor.

Metaphors are used quite a bit in scripture, to rightly divide the literal and the metaphor
is all about context. If you take things to literal you could end up taking off body parts
in an attempt to do something that will not work as we have seen in this conversation
where people can cut off a hand to not steal and still be able to steal, or blind one's self
to avoid looking at someone and lusting for them while not being able to turn off their
thoughts and thinking about them lusting in their hearts anyway.

To go the other extreme would be to look at everything as a metaphor than what could be
missed are things that are quite literal and the ability to see them is gone. This would be
very close to what Jesus rebuked the Pharisees and the scribes for turning from
the Word of God for something less than, for them they put before the Word the
traditions, turning real instructions into just metaphors limits God's Words into stories
not to be believed as is, so the literal is missed by rejecting it losing out on the truth.


Mark 7:12-14 English Standard Version (ESV)
12 then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother, 13 thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

Originally posted by @divegeester

It’s a straightforward question sonship and I refer you to the second post in this thread for the reason why you won’t be unequivocal.

For reasons that I already discussed, I don't think Jesus meant to amputate eye, tongue, foot, hand, penis, ear in order to check your lust.

So I assume your logic is - "Well then, if the amputation is not literal then why should the fire be literal ?"

That is the essence of your reasoning. Right? And as if a Bible student like myself never considered that logic.

So then what would by my answer ? I have written to this before.

Can we ALLEGORIZE all of the Bible's words about eternal judgment so as to remove from them DREAD, ALARM, HORROR, the DESIRE to AVOID at ALL COSTS, YEARNING for SAFETY, for SAVING FROM ?

My reply would be that we cannot. We may argue over the scientific details of something none of us has ever experienced. But the overall sense of the danger of CONSCIOUS awareness of everlasting DISCOMFORT is not removed for me by any amount of allegorazation of the multitude of verses dealing with final destinies of the unredeemed lost.

Whatever Gehenna or lake of fire involves it is not good and it is apparently lasting as long as the positive blessing of the saved.

In the Bible eternal life and eternal punishment are TWO eternal things not ONE. (ie. eternal life only )

If you have a different way to think of it, go ahead.
That is how I think of it and that is how I will teach.

I don't have to know the temperature of the lake to know that it is something I want to be saved from through Christ's salvation. .

Originally posted by @suzianne
Is it literally a metaphor, or is it metaphorically literal?

Madam, I have literally had 2 hours sleep in the last 60. Please avoid asking questions that mess with my head.

Originally posted by @rajk999
I would be difficult for the mind to tell the hands to steal if the man had no hands. I suppose he could find other ways to steal. The point remains that whatever hinders your entry into the Kingdom of God , have it removed... anything and everything. On the day of judgment there are no acceptable excuses, because in the end it boils down to two options - death or life.

I get what you are saying, but there is also the biblical teaching to consider of resisting temptation (to sin). So rather than 'literally' cutting off one's own hand to prevent theft (for example) God also would rather like us to have the strength of character to 'keep our hands' and yet somehow manage to stop ourselves from stealing. Consider James 1:12:

'Happy are those who remain faithful under trials, because when they succeed in passing such a test, they will receive as their reward the life which God has promised to those who love him.'

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I get what you are saying, but there is also the biblical teaching to consider of resisting temptation (to sin). So rather than 'literally' cutting off one's own hand to prevent theft (for example) God also would rather like us to have the strength of character to 'keep our hands' and yet somehow manage to stop ourselves from stealing. Consider Jame ...[text shortened]... test, they will receive as their reward the life which God has promised to those who love him.'

I think Satan uses temptation to destroy as many as he can, and one of the things I
believe is that with some they feel like if they are tempted they are sinning which is not
true. Yet if any buy into that they have no where to go, the world is full of temptations, if
you are successfully resisting sin but still take on the guilt because you were tempted
there is no victory in that, guilt isn't living in faith. Jesus was tempted, yet without sin so
just being tempted is not sinning, submitting unto God and resisting the devil is what we
are called to do. Just because we find ourselves in a struggle shouldn't surprise us, God
has made away.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I get what you are saying, but there is also the biblical teaching to consider of resisting temptation (to sin). So rather than 'literally' cutting off one's own hand to prevent theft (for example) God also would rather like us to have the strength of character to 'keep our hands' and yet somehow manage to stop ourselves from stealing. Consider Jame ...[text shortened]... test, they will receive as their reward the life which God has promised to those who love him.'

Oh yea! Preach it!

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Oh yea! Preach it!

Lol you are such a humanist. Personal strength of character not the God's work carried out.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Oh yea! Preach it!

🙂

If I had 2 children and both had managed to avoid the sin of theft, I believe I would be happier with the child who had done so of his own moral fortitude, rather than the one who had done so by cutting off his own hands.