Originally posted by ahosyneySorry, your answer isn't clear--"No, of course not" or "Yes, of course"?
No, of course.
I agree with what I understand. I can't agree with things I don't understand or haven't thought about. In my view Islam can be reconciled with Spinozan pantheism (did I say deism?), or vice-versa.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageNo I don't regard Allah a person.
Sorry, your answer isn't clear--"No, of course not" or "Yes, of course"?
I agree with what I understand. I can't agree with things I don't understand or haven't thought about. In my view Islam can be reconciled with Spinozan pantheism (did I say deism?), or vice-versa.
Sorry for ambiguous answer!!!
What parts that you don't understand or didn't think about, and we can discuss it...
In my view Islam can be reconciled with Spinozan pantheism (did I say deism?), or vice-versa.
I can't agree with you because I don't know much about Spinozan's. I would like to know more.
Originally posted by ahosyneyHappy to talk, time permitting.
[b]In my view Islam can be reconciled with Spinozan pantheism (did I say deism?), or vice-versa.
I can't agree with you because I don't know much about Spinozan's. I would like to know more.[/b]
Spinoza? You can read his stuff here:
http://www.mtsu.edu/~rbombard/RB/Spinoza/ethica-front.html
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Originally posted by Bosse de NageI read some from "I. Of God.", it is interesting. But it will take a time to read it.
Happy to talk, time permitting.
Spinoza? You can read his stuff here:
http://www.mtsu.edu/~rbombard/RB/Spinoza/ethica-front.html
Similar resoning found in Islamic Literature dealing with faith. I studied some of them in my highschool. I will try to read as much as I can and get back to you with differences (If exist).
But I have a question for now:
I can see that Spinoza is a philosiphical resoning trying to explain (or prove) our existence, GOD nature and the rule of mind. But it has nothing to do with GOD, it is not like Islam in the sense that you can't say it is the message of GOD. If this is the case do you think it is enough to know that there is GOD? Does Spinoza answer the question what GOD wants from us?
Originally posted by twhiteheadIt is your choise. I don't know what bases you used to make your conclusion but it doesn't seem logic to me.
I don't think that anyone who really thinks that there is a genuine possibility that the truth can be found in the Qu'ran will refuse to read it. Many of us do not read it because we do not think there is a possibility that the truth can be found in it or we think that the possibility is infinitesimally small.
I explained that in my argument.
Originally posted by ahosyneyI do not control the universe in its entirety. I am a part of it. I do control part of the universe. I interact with the rest of the universe.
That is my point:
My statement doesn't imply anything more than you said. Our existance is related to something that we don't have power over it. If it is not, why cann't you stop you heart beats for example. You will say the nature requires that hear beats keep going, so I can stay alife, so my heart is designed to work forever so I cann't stop it.
S ...[text shortened]... same rule. You call nature, or anything else. What the difference between you and me? Names.
Do you believe that anything that controls you is God? If I was to exert some control over you in some way do I become God?
Are you sure you heart is designed to work forever? So why are you worried about the afterlife?!
Is the universe equivalent to God in your opinion?
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou know I'm not talking about this sort of control. Actually this is not a control at all, because I can stop you from controlling me. But I stop nature control over me.
I do not control the universe in its entirety. I am a part of it. I do control part of the universe. I interact with the rest of the universe.
Do you believe that anything that controls you is God? If I was to exert some control over you in some way do I become God?
Are you sure you heart is designed to work forever? So why are you worried about the afterlife?!
Is the universe equivalent to God in your opinion?
Are you sure you heart is designed to work forever? So why are you worried about the afterlife?!
🙂 I can't find a relation between my heart beat and underlife. My heart is working without control of me, I can't stop it while it is running, and I cann't make it run again if it stopped.
I can't control when I will come to life, and I can't control ending my life (Suicide is not ending life, it is using the nature trying to end your life, it might fail).
Is the universe equivalent to God in your opinion?
I don't know how I can be more clearer.
I say that our existence is depending on something. We are not sure about it, we try to use our mind to find what it is?
You belive of the universe, I do belive in something else. What can solve this problem: That something tell us about himself.... Is it clear.
I belive that he told me about himself, he name himself Allah, and asked me to worship him. I found enough evidences to belive. So I called him Allah, and worshiped him.
You don't belive so, so you don't know him yet. So you call it universe or anything else.
Is it clear now?
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Originally posted by twhiteheadIf you read my last post you will get my answer.
The truth can be found in the Buddhist faith. If you disagree, please explain your logic.
To complete:
Human beings are living for a long time on earth, we don't know exactly how long. But do you think one message is enough for this long existence.
Of course not. If I belive in the message of Islam , it doesn't mean that it is the only message sent. No , there are many messages sent, through out the history. But why he has to send several messages?
Two reasons:
1- Some humans find what this being hard for them to accept all what this being(I will say Allah just for clarification, It is not restriction) want from them. So they modified it to meet their thinking. The message is corrupted.
2- In the past communication was not like today. And people was living in groups away from each other. Messages were sent to each group. (The content is the same) but some messages are lost, some remains and continued untill today.
So a new message is sent every time, to remind humans.
But some people reject the new message and stick to their old one, because they like it more(They already modified it to meet their desires). And some accept it. So it become like a different message.
That is why there are different messages some contain part of the truth.
But which one is the last one the contain the complete truth?
Originally posted by Bosse de NageAnd if you read the Bible you will find it too.
I think the concept of "Islam" (surrender) can be found in Buddhism and Taoism.
Some muslim scholars belive that Budda was a messanger too. He came witht the message to his people. But it is modified like other messages.
Originally posted by ahosyneyNo I disagree. We both accept that the universe exists and that we are part of it. Neither of us believe in it, it just is. You however believe in something else in addition to the universe, not as an alternative. You talk of a 'problem' to be solved but do not explain what that 'problem' is.
I say that our existence is depending on something. We are not sure about it, we try to use our mind to find what it is?
You belive of the universe, I do belive in something else. What can solve this problem: That something tell us about himself.... Is it clear.