30 Nov 06
2 edits
Originally posted by ahosyneyThe teachings of Christ comes to mind. You consider him a prophet but yet you do not follow his teachings. Christ said that "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me." Do you believe this? If you did, how is it that he could make such a claim if he were but a mere prophet as was Moses? Must you go through Christ to come to Allah?
Give one reason I shouldn't trust Quran and trust the Bible.
Tell me any teaching for any prophet that you think I don't follow.
Tell me one thing in a Muslim faith that you think is not from what the prophets came with,
Do you think each prophet came with a different message?
If Muslims followed the prophets of the Bible, why then do they only adhere to the Quran? The fact remains that the Quran is the only moral authority in the life of a Muslim. Whatever Mohammad tells you to do or not do, that is what you submitt to. I, on the other hand, do the same with the teachings of Christ. The only difference is that I admitt that Jesus is my God, not Mohammad.
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomBut why? Why would he punish us non-believers? Why does God crave so much to be worshipped? What's wrong with us being good persons, always going out of our ways to help others, be kind etc. Why must we be punished for not being God's slaves?
4. you read the book, find nothing interesting, and continue to believe that there is no GOD. when you die you find out that there is a GOD and he punishes you.
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyNow this may come as a surprise to you, but I dare say that quite a fair number of people would say that it's those who believe in God who have mental problem. But of course I haven't done a formal survey on this...
If you say that GOD existance is impossible then you have a mental problem and so, GOD will not punish you.
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by ckoh1965I'm not talking about GOD existance, I'm talking about the possiblity of GOD existance.
Now this may come as a surprise to you, but I dare say that quite a fair number of people would say that it's those who believe in God who have mental problem. But of course I haven't done a formal survey on this...
I hope you understand the difference.
30 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by ahosyneySo the only purpose of humanity is to worship God? Could he not just as well have made robots without free will to do so? You are right in that he desires worship from us, but it appears as though he only desires such praise via free will. We must want to praise him, therefore, how is this achieved without love for him? You see, relationship via love is what he is after. Your view of God is much to mechanical and inpersonal for my taste.
If you didn't worship him, worship something else with him, or don't follwo the way he asked you in worship you will lose the second point.
Do you know what GOD wants from you?[/b]
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by whodeyThe teachings of Christ comes to mind. You consider him a prophet but yet you do not follow his teachings.
The teachings of Christ comes to mind. You consider him a prophet but yet you do not follow his teachings. Christ said that "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me." Do you believe this? If you did, how is it that he could make such a claim if he were but a mere prophet as was Moses? Must you go through Christ to com ...[text shortened]... same with the teachings of Christ. The only difference is that I admitt that Jesus is my God.
I asked you to give me an example of a teaching that I don't follow.
Christ said that "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me." Do you believe this?
Sure I belive this. Every prophet came was the truth for his people, was the way to GOD. He is a prophet, and the Prophet is a Guide.
If you did, how is it that he could make such a claim if he were but a mere prophet as was Moses?
Because it doen't imply more than that. Because he said he is a man. Because he prayed to GOD several times. Because he called him my GOD several time. And he never said I'm GOD.
I belive every word he said. If he said he is GOD I would have be lived him, but he didn't.
Must you go through Christ to come to Allah?
I must belive the Jesus Christ is a messanger of Allah, I must belive he came with a Message. I must belive every thing in his message. If I didn't do that I'm not accepted by Allah.
If Muslims followed the prophets of the Bible, why then do they only adhere to the Quran?The fact remains that the Quran is the only moral authority in the life of a Muslim.
I told you before that Muslims belive of all the books sent by GOD. The problem is we know that the Quran between our hands today is the one sent to the Prophet Muhammed, but there is no evidence that the Torah , or the Bible is the same one sent to the prophets. Although I accept the truth reside inside them.
Why don't you refere to Quran?
Whatever Mohammad tells you to do or not do, that is what you submitt to. I, on the other hand, do the same with the teachings of Christ. The only difference is that I admitt that Jesus is my God.
You keep calling the Prophet by his name, and you do the same for your GOD too. We Muslims respect all prophets and never call them by their names directly. That is what Quran teach me. Although the Bible don't teach you that.
Any wat the point is the Prophet Mohammed told me he is a man, and give me a prove that he is a messanger of Allah. He give me the message that my mind accepted. He told me about my GOD. And give me the Quran, the words of Allah. In Quran allah declared about himself and said what he want from human. So I belived it.
If you take your case. Jesus didn't tell you that he is your GOD. He never said it. And he told you that he is a man, sent by GOD with a message to Jewish. Although you ignored all of that and made him GOD. Who do you think really follow the Christ?
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by whodeySounds sensible enough to me. I read somewhere that Confucious once said that if you want to be respected, then you must behave respectably.........or something like that...
So the only purpose of humanity is to worship God? Could he not just as well have made robots without free will to do so? You are right in that he desires worship from us, but it appears as though he only desires such praise via free will. We must want to praise him, therefore, how is this achieved without love for him? You see, relationship via love is what he is after. Your view of God is much to mechanical and inpersonal for my taste.
I think if God wants to be loved, respected, then he must give us reasons to love and respect him. But in my other posts on here I've mentioned how God drown everyone, safe for a few humans, for whatever reason, much in the same way Osama Bin Laden brought down the twin towers. I find it hard to respect such a psycho. When you command upon us 'thou shall not kill....', and then you yourself kill a hell lot of people, then I would question your principle.
30 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by whodeyYes, the only purpose of humanity is to worship GOD? Beside populating the earth.
So the only purpose of humanity is to worship God? Could he not just as well have made robots without free will to do so? You are right in that he desires worship from us, but it appears as though he only desires such praise via free will. We must want to praise him, therefore, how is this achieved without love for him? You see, relationship via love is what he is after. Your view of God is much to mechanical and inpersonal for my taste.
Worship requires a higher degree of free will to make sense. If you are a robot then you will not be able to choose. But if you have a complete free will then you submit yourself in worship, it implys the highest level of love.
I don't know your position. We talked about this point before. And I told you must love your GOD because he created you. Why worship imply that there is no Love?
The problem is that you consentrate on Love and Ignore worship. And that is actually what Paul did in Christianity. He introduced an easy religioun without any commitment towards GOD except love.
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyRomans 1:24 "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleaness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves. WHo changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever, Amen."
The problem is that you consentrate on Love and Ignore worship. And that is actually what Paul did in Christianity. He introduced an easy religioun without any commitment towards GOD except love.[/b]
Yes it sounds to me as if Paul has no interest in worshipping God in the least.🙄
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneySo if love is necessary for worship what is more important?
Worship requires a higher degree of free will to make sense. If you are a robot then you will not be able to choose. But if you have a complete free will then you submit yourself in worship, it implys the highest level of love.
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by whodeyI don't understand what you mean.
Romans 1:24 "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleaness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves. WHo changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever, Amen."
Yes it sounds to me as if Paul has no interest in worshipping God in the least.🙄
Do you really mean it, I guess not?🙄
30 Nov 06
So as you know, in Xianity prophets are seen as forerunners of Jesus, sometimes serving as leaders, sometimes acting as judges, and often playing the role of gadfly to the rich and powerful. Even so, their importance is most definitely downplayed in comparison to Christ.
In Islam, though, the prophets seem to be considered the sole gateways to divine truth. I here admit I know very little of the substance of Islam, and so I'm asking for your informed perspective.
My question is this: what makes what the men and/or women to whom we refer as prophets worth believing? In other words, who cares what they said, anyway?
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by whodeyBoth are important, no one is enough without the other.
So if love is necessary for worship what is more important?
If you love your GOD without worshiping , you love doesn't worth. How can you love him and don't submit yourself to him.
And you can't worship without a love. It means your faith is not complete.
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by blakbuzzrdTo answer your question I have to rewrite the thread from the begining. So I suggest you go read the previoud posts. And if your question is still alife, then I will try to give a short answer.
So as you know, in Xianity prophets are seen as forerunners of Jesus, sometimes serving as leaders, sometimes acting as judges, and often playing the role of gadfly to the rich and powerful. Even so, their importance is most definitely downplayed in comparison to Christ.
In Islam, though, the prophets seem to be considered the sole gateways to divine ...[text shortened]... to whom we refer as prophets worth believing? In other words, who cares what they said, anyway?
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyI understand proper etiquette for joining a serious discussion. I did in fact start reading this thread from the beginning, and that's why I asked the question.
To answer your question I have to rewrite the thread from the begining. So I suggest you go read the previoud posts. And if your question is still alife, then I will try to give a short answer.
Here it is put another way: what justification can there be for belief in prophets today?