Originally posted by Proper Knob When you say rape is not natural, what do you mean by natural?
I have not said rape is not natural, what I have said is that the claims that led to the assertion that rape is natural are based on scientific dogma, that being that nothing in biology makes sense unless viewed from an evolutionary perspective.
Natural to me means something that is in harmony with nature and as humans thrive on love and appreciation rape is unnatural because its based on unadulterated selfishness with a total disregard for the feeling and sentiments of others.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie yes because rioters and policemen are not foxes and rabbits.
nobody is saying rioters and policemen are foxes and rabbits, where did you get that silly idea.
so even though the patterns of movement were the same and therefore very useful to the police you would dismiss it because 'rioters are not rabbits'???? (a fact that nobody is even disputing).
Originally posted by JS357 Maybe you see it as dogma because what it contradicts is dogma. But it's one scientist's opinion and it's not science. Shared by many who like him devote their life's work to evolutionary biology. I can imagine a ballet dancer saying nothing in dance makes sense without ballet.
Perhaps you have a point JS357 and when science attempts to enter into realms that's its unfit for these types of assertions as contained in the cited text are an almost inevitable consequence.
Originally posted by stellspalfie nobody is saying rioters and policemen are foxes and rabbits, where did you get that silly idea.
so even though the patterns of movement were the same and therefore very useful to the police you would dismiss it because 'rioters are not rabbits'???? (a fact that nobody is even disputing).
The patterns of movements, wow, how much do you know about the way foxes hunt rabbits? tell me do they do it with stealth or some other means?
Originally posted by robbie carrobie The patterns of movements, wow, how much do you know about the way foxes hunt rabbits? tell me do they do it with stealth or some other means?
your getting side-tracked. the point is if its useful, if the results were the same and could be used to make practical models for predicting human behavior then why do you object??? some animals have undeniably similar attributes to humans....that doesnt make us the same.
do you accept that some animals have almost identical physical attributes to humans?
Originally posted by stellspalfie your getting side-tracked. the point is if its useful, if the results were the same and could be used to make practical models for predicting human behavior then why do you object??? some animals have undeniably similar attributes to humans....that doesnt make us the same.
do you accept that some animals have almost identical physical attributes to humans?
Fine but in view of the cited text will you now come out of the closet loud and proud and say that to draw conclusions about rape on the basis of scorpion flies sexual behaviour is bordering on the absurd and has come as a direct consequence of maintaining the view that nothing in biology makes sense except from the prism of the evolutionary hypothesis.
No I accept nothing other than we are free moral agents responsible for our own actions.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie Fine but in view of the cited text will you now come out of the closet loud and proud and say that to draw conclusions about rape on the basis of scorpion flies sexual behaviour is bordering on the absurd and has come as a direct consequence of maintaining the view that nothing in biology makes sense except from the prism of the evolutionary hypothesis.
No I accept nothing other than we are free moral agents responsible for our own actions.
im not sure about the specific study cited. but i can definitely see how there can be a evolutionary benefit for rape, especially historically. in times before the populous became highly mobile and people lived in small villages, raiding and raping other villages was an excellent way of spreading the gene pool and spreading dna further. i would also point out that the psychology behind rape isnt always the same and changes through time.
rape happens in several animal groups, i see no problem in making comparisons.
you dont believe in evolution so you are going to disagree with any theory put forward that involves it, regardless. it doesnt matter how good or bad the study you cited was, you have already made up your mind.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie Fine but in view of the cited text will you now come out of the closet loud and proud and say that to draw conclusions about rape on the basis of scorpion flies sexual behaviour is bordering on the absurd and has come as a direct consequence of maintaining the view that nothing in biology makes sense except from the prism of the evolutionary hypothesis.
No I accept nothing other than we are free moral agents responsible for our own actions.
No I accept nothing other than we are free moral agents responsible for our own actions
thats not what i asked. i asked if you accept that humans and some animals have almost identical physical attributes?
Originally posted by robbie carrobie Natural to me means something that is in harmony with nature ....
That definition doesn't sit well with your earlier posts using the word.
You said:
am glad you mention it for here we have an apparently rational study, which looking through the prism of the evolutionary hypothesis and scientific dogma concludes that rape is 'natural',
So if we insert 'something that is in harmony with nature' where you said 'natural', then I think your post is a lie because no such conclusion was made by the study.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie I have not said rape is not natural, what I have said is that the claims that led to the assertion that rape is natural are based on scientific dogma, that being that nothing in biology makes sense unless viewed from an evolutionary perspective.
Natural to me means something that is in harmony with nature and as humans thrive on love and appreci ...[text shortened]... ed on unadulterated selfishness with a total disregard for the feeling and sentiments of others.
You seem to have forgotten what you've already written in this thread. Two pages in back -
'fine i do think it not only contains scientific dogma, that dogma has resulted in the ludicrous assertion that rape is natural.'
Originally posted by robbie carrobie 'nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution' - Dobzhansky
this appears to me to be dogmatic and has resulted in two scientists looking at scorpion flies and drawing conclusions about human rape! How can this be? seriously, because nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution???? really? I mean seriously, really?
'this appears to me to be dogmatic'
Why? Are you now an expert on evolution?
Here is a link to Dobzhanskys essay -'Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution'
www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/10/2/l_102_01.html
Have a look- if you are not too scared!
Besides learning a little bit about evolution you will find out that Dobzhansky was a creationist.Here is another quote from him -
' I am a creationist and an evolutionist. Evolution is God's, or Nature's method of creation. Creation is not an event that happened in 4004 BC; it is a process that began some 10 billion years ago and is still under way'
Heh, anyone could see that this was going to be a go-nowhere thread from post #1. "Some scientist said something offensive and I want to use this as grounds to void entire fields of science!" <---I would say this argument crashes like a lead balloon, but even a lead balloon starts off in the sky somehow.
Originally posted by SwissGambit Heh, anyone could see that this was going to be a go-nowhere thread from post #1. "Some scientist said something offensive and I want to use this as grounds to void entire fields of science!" <---I would say this argument crashes like a lead balloon, but even a lead balloon starts off in the sky somehow.
very true, sometimes its fun to see whats going to come out of his mouth though.
Originally posted by biffo konker 'this appears to me to be dogmatic'
Why? Are you now an expert on evolution?
Here is a link to Dobzhanskys essay -'Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution'
www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/10/2/l_102_01.html
Have a look- if you are not too scared!
Besides learning a little bit about evolution you will find out tha ...[text shortened]... appened in 4004 BC; it is a process that began some 10 billion years ago and is still under way'
Its not important to read and assimilate Dobzhanskys work, its simply elementary to understand how it is has been utilised dogmatically. Nor is the thread about evolution, its about the use of scientific dogma to support ludicrous and unsubstantiated assertions, how this could have evaded you is somewhat bewildering and I suspect known only to you.
Rape is a mating strategy
21 Feb '14 14:491 edit
Back to Top