Read the Whole Thing .. Dammit !

Originally posted by Suzianne
Still so quick to exalt yourself above others? Above your Christian brothers? Above your neighbors? This is not love. You seek your own glory, not God's. So where is this "doing the will of the Father"? This is not "following the commandments of Christ".

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart tha ...[text shortened]... rantors of our salvation, but merely a side effect; our salvation comes from Jesus Christ alone.

Indeed.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
To understand any given teaching, it's imperative to have first analyzed the entirety of His teachings while He walked the Earth and derived the underlying themes and concepts .

Actually, you have it all wrong. To understand any given teaching it is imperative to have first analysed the relevant gospel writer. Each gospel writer had his own aim and teachings he wished to get across. Jesus himself probably never 'walked the earth' and almost certainly never said most of what is attributed to him.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Actually, you have it all wrong. To understand any given teaching it is imperative to have first analysed the relevant gospel writer. Each gospel writer had his own aim and teachings he wished to get across. Jesus himself probably never 'walked the earth' and almost certainly never said most of what is attributed to him.

Since my reference to " the entirety of His teachings while He walked the Earth" entails the words attributed to Jesus across the four gospels, how is the gospel writer relevant?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Actually, you have it all wrong. To understand any given teaching it is imperative to have first analysed the relevant gospel writer. Each gospel writer had his own aim and teachings he wished to get across. Jesus himself probably never 'walked the earth' and almost certainly never said most of what is attributed to him.

Of course this is your position. Because, you know, if the Son of God actually walked the earth, one might find it difficult not to believe in God himself. And that would just ruin everything.

As I've said before, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Originally posted by RJHinds

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

(Galatians 2:16 NKJV)

The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomin ...[text shortened]... y gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

(Romans 2:5-16 NKJV)

But on the other hand,

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." -- Matthew 7:6, KJV

You might just as well be pissing into the wind, for all the good this does either him or you.

Originally posted by vivify
You're picking and choosing. Just like how I discussed.

Why limit the Bible's quotes to what Jesus said? His dad (AKA your god) has said many things that greatly clash with what modern people find civil. It seems that you realize this, hence why you want to cherry pick Jesus.

Christ said to follow HIM. That is why for the Christian, the teachings of Christ is the key eternal life.

Originally posted by josephw
.. but God means what He says.

[b]Believe on The Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved

Get out from under the law and learn grace.[/b]

God did not say that. That was Paul. Of course Paul was right but you have to understand from Pauls teachings what is meant by 'believe'.

IF you want to understand what God said then take it from the mouth of Christ. Do you not beleive that God and Christ are one? In years of preaching, did Christ ever say to beleive in him. NO Christ said to love God and your neighbour as yourself and this will give you life eternal.

To believe in Christ is enlarged and explained over and over but many Christians choose not to listen to that. To believe in Christ is to OBEY CHRIST. Otherwise that belief is meaningless.

GROW IN GRACE

Luke 11:38 - "And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner."

LUKE 11:37-41

A sure sign of the error of legalism is misplaced priorities, as we see here with these Pharisees. It is not recorded in Scripture that the Pharisees marveled at the wonderful works of Jesus. They were too busy looking for something to criticize (Mark 3:2). But they marveled at Jesus not washing His hands. This is a classic example of straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel (Mt. 23:24).

Those who seek to earn righteousness through keeping the Law are consumed with "doing," while those who receive righteousness by faith are simply confessing what has already been done. This is a simple and yet profound difference. If we are still "doing" acts of holiness to get God to move in our lives, then we are still operating under a "Law" mentality that is not faith (Gal. 3:12). When we simply believe and confess what has already been provided through Christ, that's grace.

A person who is living under the Law and a person who lives under grace should have very similar actions of holiness, but their motivations are completely opposite. The legalist has their attention on what they must do, while the person living by faith has his attention on what Christ has already done for him. For instance, the Scriptures teach us to confess with our mouths and believe with our hearts, and we will receive from God. The legalist thinks, That means I can get God to heal me by confessing, 'By his stripes I am healed.' However, the person who understands God's grace will not confess the Word to get healed. They will confess, "By His stripes I am healed" because they really believe it has already been done.

Analyzing our "mind set" is the simplest way of discerning whether we are operating in true Bible faith or a legalistic counterfeit. If the motive for our actions is to be accepted with God, that's legalism. If we live wholly out of faith and gratefulness for what God has already done, that's grace. Grow in grace!
https://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=d09v8b6gv23iu#9154882631

Originally posted by checkbaiter
GROW IN GRACE

Luke 11:38 - "And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner."

LUKE 11:37-41

A sure sign of the error of legalism is misplaced priorities, as we see here with these Pharisees. It is not recorded in Scripture that the Pharisees marveled at the wonderful works of Jesus. They were too busy lookin ...[text shortened]... s grace. Grow in grace!
https://us-mg6.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=d09v8b6gv23iu#9154882631

You have posted an explanation from some fallible biased man about what grace does. You are certainly entitled to do that and entitled to beleive the pastor or preacher or church. Your choice. Every church have their favourite slant to the doctrine of Christ. The choice of the wise man is to read the teachings of Christ and Paul FOR THEMSELVES... ALL OF IT .. THE WHOLE STORY.

Read this ... no long explanation and fancy analysis .. its simple:

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin,
but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. (Romans 6:15-17 KJV)

Should you continue in sin because you are under grace .. NO! HELL NO!
Even if you are under grace and you continue to sin THEN YOU WILL DIE.
If you obey from the heart the doctrine of Christ, then you are righteous and YOU WILL LIVE.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Its interesting to see the responses of the'faith only' and OSAS Christians in chaney3's thread 'The Atonement of Christ'. It is very easy to justify just about any Christian doctrine using valid Bible teachings. But many of these doctrines do not give the follower of them, the whole picture of what Christ and the Apostles preached.

At the easiest end o ...[text shortened]... rist is pleased with him. [For the OSAS gang - Christ prefers good works to empty words anyday]

"Finally there is works alone. This applies to those who do not know of Christ or God, but who live lives which are acceptable to God. The Bible also supports this doctrine very clearly. "

So can you show me this in scripture, seems to me that we are saved by grace not works
least any of us can boast, if it is works than I imagine those working for it would be
boasting on how righteous they are while looking at their own righteousness not Jesus'.

So how can you please God by trying to work for a free gift?

Originally posted by KellyJay
"Finally there is works alone. This applies to those who do not know of Christ or God, but who live lives which are acceptable to God. The Bible also supports this doctrine very clearly. "

So can you show me this in scripture, seems to me that we are saved by grace not works
least any of us can boast, if it is works than I imagine those working for it w ...[text shortened]... ir own righteousness not Jesus'.

So how can you please God by trying to work for a free gift?

For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; ) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
(Romans 2:11-16 KJV)

The funny thing is that Christ never said anything about works or grace, or free gift or own righteousness or His righteousness. Does that not make you wonder about your doctrine?

Originally posted by Rajk999
For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. [b]For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contain ...[text shortened]... t or own righteousness or His righteousness. Does that not make you wonder about your doctrine?

You realize that if you break any part of the law you are a law breaker, in addition to that
the scripture is very clear that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. You are
suggesting here that some have lived good enough lives that God will accept them with
sin in them.

Originally posted by Rajk999
For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. [b]For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contain ...[text shortened]... t or own righteousness or His righteousness. Does that not make you wonder about your doctrine?

You realize that if you break any part of the law you are a law breaker, in addition to that
the scripture is very clear that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. You are
suggesting here that some have lived good enough lives that God will accept them with
sin in them.

The notion that those that did not know the law but still due to their very nature only
shows that God has planted in us that which we needed, but we still fall short. We will
condemn ourselves and justify ourselves in our actions yes, but as I pointed out earlier
we have all fallen short, no one is going to be justified on our own righteousness.

If you are attempting to say that with some they are good enough without Jesus Christ,
that has to be one of the more horrific falsehoods of all time. Why would Jesus need to
die for our sins if we could do it on our own?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ said to follow HIM. That is why for the Christian, the teachings of Christ is the key eternal life.

And Jesus said he does the will of his father, who is the OT god. Based on this, do you think Jesus wants people to follow him instead of the OT God?

Originally posted by RJHinds
From your last paragraph, it appears you support works salvation, which is the belief of basically all the false religions. I believe the charitable atheist will have his part in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, NOT in Christ's Kingdom. Scipture clearly states:

And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

(Hebrews 11:6 NASB)

A clever dodge invented by the priests to make sure their subjects were well and fully captured, body and soul. Just like all man made religions.

Your god (assuming there actually is such a cruel beast) is totally immoral, not caring how many millions die, not lifting a rhetorical finger to help those being tortured in war. So the Christians so tortured will have a place in your so-called heaven, but Muslims, Atheists, Coptics, Hindu, those people get tortured here on Earth AND get tortured forever in your despised hell.

And you call that a gracious god. What utter rot.