Read the Whole Thing .. Dammit !

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christians can and do abuse the power given to them. Read this:

[i]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they cr ...[text shortened]... s that they shame Christ and they are refused forgiveness. Sounds very bad for those Christians.

Okay, but what does that have to do with those that reject, deny, or simply do not believe
in Christ? According to Jesus, they are condemned already, according to you they are
what?

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you do not mind, it appears you are adding to Jesus words here, can you back up what
you just said with scripture. Either way, even if there are those that believe and there are
two types of believers, those that do not are still all condemned according to Jesus.

Im surprised that you think the sum total of what Christ preached about eternal life and how to get it is summed up in your John 3:16 quote. Did Christ not say anything else? Did not the Apostles not say more that explains what it means to 'believe in Christ'?

Anyway I will get you the quotes like you requested... tomorrow. Now its Friday night. 😀 .. having a few well deserved drinks with some friends.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Im surprised that you think the sum total of what Christ preached about eternal life and how to get it is summed up in your John 3:16 quote. Did Christ not say anything else? Did not the Apostles not say more that explains what it means to 'believe in Christ'?

Anyway I will get you the quotes like you requested... tomorrow. Now its Friday night. 😀 .. having a few well deserved drinks with some friends.

I did not say the sum total of what Christ preached about eternal life was in John 3:16.
I said He broke out all people into two groups in all the scripture I quoted, those that did
believe, and those that did not.

I hope you have a good time with your friends, look forward to your reply!

Originally posted by KellyJay
I did not say the sum total of what Christ preached about eternal life was in John 3:16.
I said He broke out all people into two groups in all the scripture I quoted, those that did
believe, and those that did not.

I hope you have a good time with your friends, look forward to your reply!

Among those who claim to believe, Christ separates them into two types described in different ways. In a nutshell it is those whose belief yields nothing, no fruit, no works no change of heart and mind etc and others whose believe has the opposite effect.

1. Those he knows / those he does not know

Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: (Luke 13:24-25 KJV)

"I know you" or "I dont know you" is used by Christ many times. What does that mean. Here is John explaining:

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. (1 John 2:3-6 KJV)

2. Those who call him Lord and obey his commandments / those who call him Lord but do not obey Him

Luk_6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

3. Those who see him suffering and help him / those who do not

Matt 25 - the sheep and the goats

4. those who build their house on a rock / those who build their house on the sand.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great. (Luke 6:46-49 KJV)

5. Good seed and Bad seed:

Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. (Luke 8:11-15 KJV)



6. The wise and foolish virgins.

****************************************************************************
who gets eternal life are :
- THE ONES CHRIST KNOW
- THE ONES WHO OBEY CHRIST
- THE SHEEP
- THOSE WHO BUILD THEIR HOUSE ON THE ROCK
- THE GOOD SEED
- THE WISE VIRGINS.

"Read the Whole Thing .. Dammit !"
Originally posted by Rajk999
"Christ paid the price YES ... BUT !!!

Figure out what the BUT is .."
__________________

"Rajk999, one final question: Would Jesus Christ Himself have replied with,

"YES ... BUT !!!

Figure out what the BUT is .." as you have?"

"Read the Whole Thing .. Dammit !"
Originally posted by Rajk999
"Christ paid the price YES ... BUT !!!

Figure out what the BUT is .."
__________________

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Rajk999, one final question: Would Jesus Christ Himself have replied with,

"YES ... BUT !!!

Figure out what the BUT is .." as you have?
___________________________

Your apparent failure to reply noted. Final statement: There's no "BUT" in salvation only the eternal destiny of our souls.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]"Read the Whole Thing .. Dammit !"
Originally posted by Rajk999
"Christ paid the price YES ... BUT !!!

Figure out what the BUT is .."
__________________

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Rajk999, one final question: Would Jesus Christ Himself have replied with,

"YES ... BUT !!!

Figure out what the BUT is .." as ...[text shortened]... ply noted. Final statement: There's no "BUT" in salvation only the eternal destiny of our souls.[/b]

DId not think you seriously did not know what the BUT was. Here it is:

Christ died for the sins of the world BUT . if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

The BUT is that only those that OBEY AND DONT TURN AWAY FROM THE HOLY COMMANDMENT delivered to them will get eternal life.

Many will accept Christ with their mouth but will turn away from Him..

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Hope you still have your teeth left to gnash 😀

Originally posted by Rajk999
DId not think you seriously did not know what the BUT was. Here it is:

[b]Christ died for the sins of the world BUT . if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been bette ...[text shortened]...
There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Hope you still have your teeth left to gnash 😀

You use this verse quite frequently that was addressed to the Jews who were zealous for the Law.
How about explaining the ones that contradict this verse if one was to interpret it your way?

Rom 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable
NKJV

Eph 1:13-14
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
NKJV

If I lose my salvation, it was about as good a guarantee as I would get from a crooked car dealer.

How about the first verse, is it irrevocable or is it a mistake?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You use this verse quite frequently that was addressed to the Jews who were zealous for the Law.
How about explaining the ones that contradict this verse if one was to interpret it your way?
[quote]Rom 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable
NKJV

Eph 1:13-14
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gosp ...[text shortened]... from a crooked car dealer.

How about the first verse, is it irrevocable or is it a mistake?

Glad you are commenting here. 🙂 Give me some time to reply. Today is Eid and I have a few friends coming over for lunch so I will need some time.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
..Rom 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable
NKJV

The story in Romans 11 is about how the Gentiles came to be on par with the Jews as far as God is concerned. Paul refers to Jews as natural branches and the Gentiles as grafted branches. Both groups are one in Christ. Paul is saying that God will not change or have regrets about bringing the Gentiles in an equal position with the Jews. God has called the Gentiles to his kingdom. God will not revoke that..

The Jews apparently did not like that but notice there is no special treatment for Gentiles. Just as God punished the Jews He will punish the Gentiles:

For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. (Romans 11:21-22 KJV)

GOD WILL BE GOOD TO THE GENTILES THAT CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS OTHERWISE THEY WILL BE CUT OFF.

Read the whole thing !!

Originally posted by checkbaiter
..Eph 1:13-14
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
NKJV..

Again please read the WHOLE THING.

The entire book of Ephesians is a lecture from Paul about good works and righteousness which the Christians MUST FOLLOW... THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW ... THEY ARE REQUIRED TO OBEY CHRIST.

It starts off saying that Christians at that Church are sealed with the promise, but closer to the end it says:

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

This is Paul speaking to the VERY SAME SEALED CHRISTIANS. and warning them that they will not enter Gods Kingdom if they continue on with sin.

Gods guarantee is good. If you prefer to liken it to that of a crooked car salesman then thats your choice.
God REQUIRES THE FAITH OF THE CHRISTIAN TO GUIDE HIM TO RIGHTEOUS LIVING.

Not every Christian that professes Christ with their mouth will be in Gods Kingdom.

Here is Christ addressing the church at Ephesus:

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. (Revelation 2:1-7 KJV)

Does it sounds like Christ is saying that they are all getting into Gods Kingdom ? .. NO .. ONLY TO THOSE THAT OVERCOMETH WILL GET TO EAT OF THE TREE OF LIFE.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Among those who claim to believe, Christ separates them into two types described in different ways. In a nutshell it is those whose belief yields nothing, no fruit, no works no change of heart and mind etc and others whose believe has the opposite effect.

[b]1. Those he knows / those he does not know

[i]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for ma ...[text shortened]... ST
- THE SHEEP
- THOSE WHO BUILD THEIR HOUSE ON THE ROCK
- THE GOOD SEED
- THE WISE VIRGINS.[/b]

Listen, I don't care about those that believe in this discussion, the scripture I was talking
about had Jesus say there were those that believed and those that did not. Jesus said
those that did not were condemned already!

So in a nut shell, I don't see how you can hold out hope that those that do not believe
can work their way into God's favor, they are condemned already.

With respect to those that believe and yet refuse to follow Jesus, they will have their own
issues and if they don't repent they will be no better off than those that reject the Lord in
my opinion.

With respect to your list of who gets eternal life, that list only describes one group of
people not many.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Listen, I don't care about those that believe in this discussion, the scripture I was talking
about had Jesus say there were those that believed and those that did not. Jesus said
those that did not were condemned already!

So in a nut shell, I don't see how you can hold out hope that those that do not believe
can work their way into God's favor, they ...[text shortened]... t to your list of who gets eternal life, that list only describes one group of
people not many.

Ok will get back to you on this.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Ok will get back to you on this.

Thank you

Originally posted by googlefudge

As a DIRECT RESULT of your line of "reason", you insist on taking what Jesus taught out of context and at face-value despite the brute fact that much of what Jesus taught while He walked the Earth is heavily steeped in metaphor and abstraction. True or not true?

FALSE.

Christ NEVER EXISTED and thus never taught anything to be taken ...[text shortened]... view is entirely self consistent and logical, despite your heroic efforts to miss-understand me.

Let's see:

You posted the following about Matthew 5:16-19:
"In other words, 'I fully endorse and approve of the commandments of the OT'."

You misconstrued the meaning since you took it out of context and at face value. It was foolhardy to do so since the words attributed to Jesus are heavily steeped in metaphor and abstraction.

No matter how much you try pretend that it isn't true, it's foolhardy to take the words attributed to Jesus out of context and at face value, since it's a brute fact that many of the words attributed to Jesus is heavily steeped in metaphor and abstraction.

After I pointed out the absurdity of your insistence in doing so, you pitched a hissy fit, called me an "ass" and have been trying every which way to defend your indefensible position ever since. Just give it up already.

You're really too funny GF.