06 Oct 13
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Originally posted by checkbaiterI don't think you have got anything right. But lets see, yeah probably all of those reprobates will be cut off, especially Billy Graham, robber and fraud that he is. This issue has nothing to do with Jehovahs witnesses, i suspect that by introducing irrelevancies you seek to provide smoke screen for the unscriptural nature of your assertions.
Let's see if I have this right....By yours and Raj estimation all these followers of Christ and their entire congregations are all headed for ...well, let's say eternal damnation...
Billy Graham, Martin Luther, Joyce Meyer, Max Lucado, C.H. Spurgeon, Dr David Jeremiah, John MacArthur, Greg Laurie, Andy Stanley, T.D. Jakes, Andrew Wommack, Charles Swindo ...[text shortened]... ched salvation is permanent..
But of course, they are all wrong, and only the JW's are right...
06 Oct 13
Originally posted by RJHindssee, they believe it! and teach it!
[b]Once saved, always saved."
This is not a verse in the Holy Bible. Not all Christian denominations teach this idea. I have only heard this teaching coming from the Southern Baptist denomination. There may be others, but I am not aware of it. Here is what one website says about it.
http://www.preparingforeternity.com/oncesave.htm
The Instructor[/b]
06 Oct 13
Originally posted by RJHindsNeither is dropping napalm on people yet your US army did it, but clearly there are principles which apply, what Jehovahs witnesses believe with regard to blood transfusion is irrelevant, man you need to be reeled in from da moon! but then again, to expect a rational conversation with someone who professes that the earth is as little as 6,000 years old, is simply asking too much. Hey Jonah Hinds, maybe you are a living dinosaur?
JWs believe giving blood for blood transfusions to save lives is a sin! and teach it! That is not in the Holy Bible!
The Instructor
06 Oct 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieDo you believe it is clear in scripture that a Christian can lose their salvation?
I dont know if i can take any more of this, its so absolutely diagrammatically opposed to what is written in scripture, not only is a Christian under duress to change his personality, it is described in scripture as being a complete metamorphosis so that what went before is unrecognisable.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-11) What! Do you not know that unrighte ...[text shortened]... ave been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.
06 Oct 13
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieSorry but your wording is different to mine so just to be clear, you do believe that a Christian can lose their salvation?
I certainly think its true that a Christian can lose their Christian identity and forfeit the prospect of salvation yes.
I.e. Being saved and then becoming unsaved. Not "prospects or identities"
06 Oct 13
Originally posted by divegeesterfirst of all i dont believe a Christian is in a saved state, that is why i said , losing the prospect of salvation, your question therefore makes no sense to me as originally presented, i therefore took the liberty to put it into terms that i could relate to and answer, apart from that I have no idea.
Sorry but your wording is different to mine so just to be clear, you do believe that a Christian can lose their salvation?
I.e. Being saved and then becoming unsaved. Not "prospects or identities"
06 Oct 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobiePlease explain "lose the prospect of salvation"
first of all i dont believe a Christian is in a saved state, that is why i said , losing the prospect of salvation, your question therefore makes no sense to me as originally presented, i therefore took the liberty to put it into terms that i could relate to and answer, apart from that I have no idea.
06 Oct 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThis is a fundamental error in Christianity. The death of Christ saved the Christian YES but SAVED him from INHERITED SIN IN THE FLESH. Paul in the Book of Romans spent several chapters explaining that to Christians and Jews.
first of all i dont believe a Christian is in a saved state, that is why i said , losing the prospect of salvation, your question therefore makes no sense to me as originally presented, i therefore took the liberty to put it into terms that i could relate to and answer, apart from that I have no idea.
But they equate that 'saved' to eternal life which is only granted in the day of judgment.
As you correctly state, no Christian is 'saved' in the sense of being granted eternal life. They mistakenly believe that they already have eternal life.
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06 Oct 13
4 edits
Many Christians do not take such a warning as this seriously. Yet it is serious. But it is serious while coming short of meaning the saved Christian becomes unsaved again, unredeemed again, un-born again, and deprived of the gift of eternal life.
But it is serious and should be considered with two other sister passages which basically give the same warning - Ephesians 4:5-7 and Galatians 5:19-21.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-11) What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean, but you have been sanctified, but you have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.
The presupposition of Robbie is that to not inherit the kingdom of God is to lose eternal life and forfeit eternal redemption.
In Rajk999ism any possible rebuke, warning, exhortation to take caution, to the Christian involves being un-born again and un-redeemed.
This passage is about the defeated Christian who instead of being an overcomer is overcome. He has been positionally sanctified. He has been defeated in the transformation to be dispositionally sanctified.
As long as he lacks this dispositional sanctification he will not inherit the kingdom of God.
At such time when he is dealt with through loss of reward, through dispensational discipline and punishment, we will inherit the kingdom of God.
The flavor of such dealings will be different from what they are in the age of grace.
He has postponed dispositional sanctification during the church age , during the age of grace. This is like having to go to summer school. He will graduate late. He will graduate in a remedial way losing the reward of reigning with Christ in the millennial kingdom.
Here is an example of one who is saved yet will not inherit the kingdom of God -
"The work of each [Christian] will become manifest; for the day will declare it, because it is revealed by fire, and the fire itself will prove each one's work, of what sort it is.
If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward - [inheriting the kingdom of God in the millennium]
If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss - [not inherit the kingdom of God in the millennium]
but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:13-15)
In the next few posts I will use equally conclusive passages.
06 Oct 13
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Christ's work at Calvary was "finished", there is nothing more to do and therefore any effort to do it is futile.
For the old man to die he has to be in Christ at his death. "For if a man is in Christ he is a new creation."
"Salvation is a gift of god not through works, so no man can boast."
The names of the 'saved' were written in the book of life before the foundation of the earth.
God said "no man can deliver out of my hand"
If something is a gift, a gift that was predestined before the foundation of the world, a gift that is received and not attained through works, then how can it cease to be a gift because certain works are not done after the gift is given? It may be offensive to some that The atonement is complete and does not require man's effort but that is the Gospel I.e. The translation is good news, not a "prospect" of good news, or good news today but could be bad news tomorrow.
This is not to say that God does not discipline those he loves as sons.
06 Oct 13
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterChrist's work at Calvary was "finished", there is nothing more to do and therefore any effort to do it is futile
Christ's work at Calvary was "finished", there is nothing more to do and therefore any effort to do it is futile.
For the old man to die he has to be in Christ at his death. "For if a man is in Christ he is a new creation."
"Salvation is a gift of god [b]not through works, so no man can boast."
The names of the 'saved' were written in th ...[text shortened]... be bad news tomorrow.
This is not to say that God does not discipline those he loves as sons.[/b]
this is a flawed and erroneous statement and is the reason i suspect why so many Christians are Christians nominally, that is in name only,
(1 Corinthians 15:58) Consequently, my beloved brothers, become steadfast, unmovable, always having plenty to do in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labour is not in vain in connection with [the] Lord.
06 Oct 13
Originally posted by Rajk999an excellent post! clear concise and to the point.
This is a fundamental error in Christianity. The death of Christ saved the Christian YES but SAVED him from INHERITED SIN IN THE FLESH. Paul in the Book of Romans spent several chapters explaining that to Christians and Jews.
But they equate that 'saved' to eternal life which is only granted in the day of judgment.
As you correctly state, no Christian ...[text shortened]... ense of being granted eternal life. They mistakenly believe that they already have eternal life.