1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    14 Mar '14 03:451 edit
    Relationship with God

    "Adoption Introduction:
    The Scriptures teach that God has adopted two groups of people in history: (1) Israel (Deuteronomy 7:6; Romans 9:1-5) (2) Church (Romans 8:15; Ephesians 1:5). At the moment of conversion when they exercise faith alone in Christ alone the church age believer is adopted Roman style into the royal family of God through the baptism of the Spirit thus making him an heir of God and spiritual aristocracy. In adoption they receive the position of a son of God at the moment of conversion through the baptism of the Spirit. Every Christian obtains the place of a child and the right to be called a son the moment he believes in Jesus Christ for salvation (Galatians 3:25-26; 4:6; 1 John 3:1-2).

    The New Testament teaches that the church has been adopted into the royal family of God as adult sons thus conferring upon them all the privileges and responsibilities that go along with this new relationship with God. The indwelling of the Spirit gives the guarantee of the believer’s adoption (Galatians 4:6). The filling of the Spirit enables the believer to experience his adoption. The full manifestation of the believer’s sonship awaits the resurrection of the church or the rapture which is called the “redemption of the body” (Romans 8:23; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17; Ephesians 1:14; 1 John 3:2).

    The believer’s adoption into the royal family of God makes him an heir of God (Romans 8:15-17). The church age believer has been removed from the cosmic system as a child of the devil and has been placed as an adult son into the royal family of God, of which the Lord Jesus Christ is the Head (Colossians 1:13). Adoption means that the church age believer is spiritual aristocracy now and is intimately related to all three members of the Trinity. The adoption of the church age believer means: (1) Privileges as an adult son of God (2) Responsibility to grow to spiritual maturity. Romans 8:15 teaches that the church age believer has been adopted “Romans style” into the royal family of God."

    "Adoption Responsibilities that go along with this new relationship with God. The indwelling of the Spirit gives the guarantee of the believer's adoption." Galatians 4: 4-7 "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5. so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6. Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7. Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God." ["Abbá! Father!" also used as the term of tender endearment by a beloved child." -Strongs] 2013 Pastor/Teacher William E. Wenstrom, Jr. Bible Ministries

    http://www.wenstrom.org/downloads/written/doctrines/soteriology/adoption.pdf

    Purpose: To provide a point of reference for the consideration of those who doubt the authenticity of Relationship with God.
  2. Standard memberNick Bourbaki
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    14 Mar '14 04:00
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Purpose: To provide a point of reference for the consideration of those who doubt the authenticity of Relationship with God.[/b]
    All theists purport to have a relationship with God of some sort.
  3. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    14 Mar '14 17:41
    Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
    All theists purport to have a relationship with God of some sort.
    Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
    All theists purport to have a relationship with God of some sort.

    Nick, aren't there some atheist schools of thought that recognize some form of philosophical entity or mediation god?
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    14 Mar '14 19:19
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
    All theists purport to have a relationship with God of some sort.

    Nick, aren't there some atheist schools of thought that recognize some form of philosophical entity or mediation god?
    On another note: why is it necessary to quote the post then quote the post again?
  5. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    14 Mar '14 21:24
    Originally posted by divegeester
    On another note: why is it necessary to quote the post then quote the post again?
    As a courtesy to subsequent page posters (in the event the thread draws interest) as a point of reference for my reply.
  6. Standard memberNick Bourbaki
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    15 Mar '14 00:30
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
    All theists purport to have a relationship with God of some sort.

    Nick, aren't there some atheist schools of thought that recognize some form of philosophical entity or mediation god?
    I haven't heard of any atheists purporting to have a relationship with God.
  7. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    15 Mar '14 00:391 edit
    Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
    I haven't heard of any atheists purporting to have a relationship with God.
    Believe you may have misread the letter case employed in my reply:
    "... some atheist schools of thought that recognize some form of philosophical entity or mediation god?"
    [lower rather than upper and in contrast to "God"]
  8. Standard memberNick Bourbaki
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    15 Mar '14 00:56
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Believe you may have misread the letter case employed in my reply:
    "... some atheist schools of thought that recognize some form of philosophical entity or mediation [b]g
    od?"
    [lower rather than upper and in contrast to "God"][/b]
    I think you misread the letter case I employed in my reply to your OP and have forgotten the letter case you yourself used in your thread title.
  9. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    15 Mar '14 01:001 edit
    Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
    I think you misread the letter case I employed in my reply to your OP and have forgotten the letter case you yourself used in your thread title.
    Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
    All [theists] purport to have a relationship with [God] of some sort. (brackets mine)

    I accepted your theist premise and then asked a follow on question regarding atheists:

    "Nick, aren't there some [atheist] schools of thought that recognize some form of philosophical entity or mediation [god]?"
  10. Standard memberNick Bourbaki
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    15 Mar '14 01:041 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    I accepted your theist premise ...
    Where?
  11. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    15 Mar '14 01:31
    Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
    Where?
    If I hadn't accepted your theist premise there would have a question or two asking for clarification or contesting it...
  12. Standard memberNick Bourbaki
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    15 Mar '14 01:35
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    If I hadn't accepted your theist premise there would have a question or two asking for clarification or contesting it...
    It's interesting that you are claiming to have accepted it. Elsewhere you have said something along the lines of 'Christianity is different from other religions because Christianity is a relationship with God'. (I am paraphrasing of course). Well, if I understand you correctly, you are now saying that theists from other religions also have a relationship with God. These two stances of yours are in conflict with each other.
  13. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    15 Mar '14 01:56
    Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
    It's interesting that you are claiming to have accepted it. Elsewhere you have said something along the lines of 'Christianity is different from other religions because Christianity is a relationship with God'. (I am paraphrasing of course). Well, if I understand you correctly, you are now saying that theists from other religions also have a relationship with God. These two stances of yours are in conflict with each other.
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
    All theists purport to have a relationship with God of some sort.

    I accepted your theist premise and then asked a follow on question regarding atheists...

    accepting the premise conversationally as yours: knowing full well we both already knew it wasn't mine.

    Please reply:

    "Nick, aren't there some atheist schools of thought that recognize some form of philosophical entity or mediation god?"
  14. Standard memberNick Bourbaki
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    15 Mar '14 02:02
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
    All theists purport to have a relationship with God of some sort.

    I accepted [b]your
    theist premise and then asked a follow on question regarding atheists...

    accepting the premise conversationally as yours: knowing full well we both already knew it wasn't m ...[text shortened]... e atheist schools of thought that recognize some form of philosophical entity or mediation god?"[/b]
    You're dodging. First you do accept the premise. Then you don't accept the premise.

    I said, in reply to your OP, "All theists purport to have a relationship with God of some sort."

    Do you agree with that statement or not?
  15. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    15 Mar '14 02:262 edits
    Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
    You're dodging. First you do accept the premise. Then you don't accept the premise.

    I said, in reply to your OP, "All theists purport to have a relationship with God of some sort."

    Do you agree with that statement or not?
    "I accepted your theist premise..." and continue to accept your theist premise that "All theists purport to have a relationship with God of some sort." as a premise which you believe. The premise is incorrect to the extent that being a theist doesn't necessarily equate with believing in Christ or being a Christian (the basis of having a relationship with God).
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