16 Mar 14
Originally posted by sonshipI am not asking you to testify about how true you think your own beliefs are. I am not asking you to agree that all theologies are the same as yours. The crux of this is whether the Christian religion can be set apart from other religions because it purports to involve a relationship with God.OK then. All theists [i.e. Christians and non-Christians] purport to have a relationship of some sort with God. Agree or disagree?
I think "relationship" is okay to use as long as you expand the meaning to include simple creation.
Some theist would define her relationship to be that of creator to Creator, and no more. Are you willing ...[text shortened]... dmission of a "relationship with God" - [b]"For we also are His race."
I'll stop here.[/b]
16 Mar 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYou are sincere and certain in your Christian beliefs. I get that. But you are still dodging the question. I am not asking you to agree with non-Christians' perceptions of their own relationship with God. I am asking you to recognize that 'having a relationship with God' is not an exclusively Christian concept. Do you recognize that non-Christians' perception of their relationship with God is sincere and certain like yours? You either do recognize this characteristic of theists or you don't.
Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
Do you think non-Christians' perception of their relationship with God can be every bit as sincere and as certain as yours?
My belief in Christ and personal relationship with God the Father have never been based on "sincere" emotions or mystical activities or feeling good from doing good deeds or the approba ...[text shortened]... ine" or "an authentic person" rather than, "He's a nice guy". Sincerity doesn't cut it with God.
16 Mar 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYour opinion about (some) fellow Christians is irrelevant to the question you have been posed.
My belief in Christ and personal relationship with God the Father have never been based on "sincere" emotions or mystical activities or feeling good from doing good deeds or the approbation of a pat on the back from some pastor whose sermons are devoid of doctrinal content. This notion of Christianity is divorced from the truth.
16 Mar 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
You are sincere and certain in your Christian beliefs. I get that. But you are still dodging the question. I am not asking you to agree with non-Christians' perceptions of their own relationship with God. I am asking you to recognize that 'having a relationship with God' is not an exclusively Christian concept. Do you recognize that non-Christians' per ...[text shortened]... ere and certain like yours? You either do recognize this characteristic of theists or you don't.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten [uniquely born] Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name [person] of the only begotten [uniquely born] Son of God." (John 3:16-18)
"I am the way, and the truth and the life; no man comes to the Father but through me." (John 14:6b)
Human beings who have not yet believed in Christ (no matter how religious they may be) do not know God the Father
and, therefore, have no relationship with Him.
16 Mar 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI accept that what you say here is what people of your religion purport and I accept that you sincerely believe it to be so. The question you are dancing around is whether you accept that other theistic religions also purport that their followers have a relationship with God. Proselytizing your own religion does not answer my question. My question is about your awareness of theistic religions other than your own.
Human beings who have not yet believed in Christ (no matter how religious they may be) do not know God the Father
and, therefore, have no relationship with Him.
16 Mar 14
Originally posted by sonshipI have explicitly said that I am not asking you to say that "all theologies are the same". I don't know how many times I have stated it: this is not what I am asking of you. I am asking you whether you deny that other non-Christian religions also purport to have a relationship with God. A purported relationship with God is something that theistic religions have in common. Do you agree with this or not?
Why should I say all theologies are the same for all purport something similar ?
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16 Mar 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Nick BourbakiAh, so true. My big fat mistake.
I have explicitly said that I am [b]not asking you to say that "all theologies are the same". I don't know how many times I have stated it: this is not what I am asking of you. I am asking you whether you deny that other non-Christian religions also purport to have a relationship with God. A purported relationship with God is something that theistic religions have in common. Do you agree with this or not?[/b]
Sorry.
I think I answered that a proported "relationship with God" is certainly not the sole claim of Christians.
I think I showed that the 17th chapter of Acts records Paul talking about everyone has some relationship with God.
16 Mar 14
Originally posted by Nick BourbakiFiat Lux.
I accept that what you say here is what people of your religion purport and I accept that you sincerely believe it to be so. The question you are dancing around is whether you accept that other theistic religions also purport that their followers have a relationship with God. Proselytizing your own religion does not answer my question. My question is about your awareness of theistic religions other than your own.
-Bob
16 Mar 14
Originally posted by sonshipThank you sonship.
Ah, so true. My big fat mistake.
Sorry.
I think I answered that a proported "relationship with God" is certainly not the sole claim of Christians.
(I assume by "not the sole claim of Christians" you mean "not a claim exclusive to Christians".)
The essence of what I have been trying to discuss with Grampy Bobby is not your or his opinion about your own faith and dogma, it has been about whether you think the Christian religion can be set apart from other religions because it purports to involve a relationship with God whereas competing religions don't. You have now settled it from your point of view. I will see if Grampy Bobby is able to put his proselytizing aside for a moment and address my question, as you now have.
16 Mar 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYour evasiveness is interesting. What it achieves on a spiritual level for you and what you think it achieves in the eyes of people reading your dodges page after page, is something known only to you.
Fiat Lux.
-Bob
A question posed to you in good faith: do you ever reflect upon whether your own purported relationship with God has restricted your capacity for empathy regarding the spirituality of people of religions other than your own?
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16 Mar 14
3 edits
The essence of what I have been trying to discuss with Grampy Bobby is not your or his opinion about your own faith and dogma, it has been about whether you think the Christian religion can be set apart from other religions because it purports to involve a relationship with God whereas competing religions don't. You have now settled it from your point of view. I will see if Grampy Bobby is able to put his proselytizing aside for a moment and address my question, as you now have.
I'm a preacher of the Gospel of Jesus too.
Though I am not looking for proselytes.
I do like to give people something to think about and pray for them possibly on their life's way to meeting my Jesus.
Save some contempt for me too.
Are you excited about anything that you just cannot help wanting to tell others about it?
Hang on. I think one thing which definitely makes the Christian's relationship with God different from any other religious claim is this:
Every other world faith, the relationship is based on what I can do.
Christian salvation is based on what Christ did.
The urge is within man to believe that HE can do SOMETHING, SOMETHING to earn his relationship with God. This thought must be abandoned in coming to Christ.
My knowing God is not at all based upon what I was able to do or can do.
It is in my accepting the finished work of Christ - what HE has done.
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16 Mar 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Nick BourbakiStuff like "Quit prosylatizing."
What are you referring to?
You have quoted me but removed my screen name. Are you addressing me?
What "contempt"?
Usually that carries with it some attitude of contempt.
You see, we are not ashamed of going into all the world to preach the Gospel.