Originally posted by KellyJayThe English *translation* is murder. The English text is not the holy scripture, the original text is. What does the original text say?
If you are going to quote it, quote it that way you get the language
correct, it does not say kill it says murder, there is difference between
the two words.
Kelly
Exodus 20:13
13 "You shall not murder.
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Originally posted by KellyJayIn the absence of knowing the Hebrew passage, how would one be able to judge the accuracy of an English translation? Am I presuming correctly that you don't know the Hebrew word/passage? My apologies for making that leap if in fact you can read it in Hebrew; it just didn't sound like that was the case.
It’s quite easy to look up; I gave him a translation he said because
it was in English it didn't count, so I wanted his version and why it is
better than how English translations handle that word's translation.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayIt's not as simple as that.
If you are going to quote it, quote it that way you get the language
correct, it does not say kill it says murder, there is difference between
the two words.
Kelly
Exodus 20:13
13 "You shall not murder.
"Ratsach is mentioned in the bible more than 46 times, and less than half of the time is this word used to indicate murder; in some cases it's accidental killing or other forms of non-premeditated violence. [...] We know the NIV is wrong for the following reason: The Hebrew word used here is ratsach - which can mean murder, slay or accidentally kill. There are other common Hebrew words that can mean similar things - all used interchangeably."
http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/You_shall_not_kill
"It is wrong to claim the commandment in Exodus 20:13 should be translated as “Thou shalt not murder.” The Hebrew word ratsach in that selection does not mean murder exclusively. Ratsach appears 94 times in many different contexts in the Bible. Sometimes it refers to justifiable killings (i.e. Numbers 35:27). In the King James Version of the Bible, ratsach is most frequently translated as “slay.” Numbers 35:30-31 uses ratsach to mean capital punishment; therefore, the commandment “Thou shalt not kill” does explicitly proscribe the death penalty. What a surprise – another biblical contradiction." http://www.geocities.com/bushcheney1984/killing.html
Originally posted by BadwaterBack-translation is one way of checking whether a translation is accurate or not: you translate the translation back into the original language without reference to the original text.
In the absence of knowing the Hebrew passage, how would one be able to judge the accuracy of an English translation? Am I presuming correctly that you don't know the Hebrew word/passage? My apologies for making that leap if in fact you can read it in Hebrew; it just didn't sound like that was the case.
How would you go about back-translating the Bible into archaic Hebrew? Will all the archaic Hebrew translators in the house please stand up?
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Originally posted by Bosse de Nageyes, it always amazes me how persons think that on the basis of a multiple rendering of the same word, that the context does not have a bearing and thus leads to contradiction???, which is nothing short of erroneous, some information and education,
Back-translation is one way of checking whether a translation is accurate or not: you translate the translation back into the original language without reference to the original text.
How would you go about back-translating the Bible into archaic Hebrew? Will all the archaic Hebrew translators in the house please stand up?
a number of translations use the word “kill” at Exodus 20:13; among these are the Douay Version, the Catholic Confraternity, the American Standard Version and the Revised Standard Version. However, other translations use the word “murder” instead of “kill” at Exodus 20:13 because the Hebrew word here is ratsach, which means, according to Young’s Exhaustive Concordance, “to murder, pierce.”
Regarding this same Hebrew word Strong’s lexicon of Hebrew words states: “ratsach, a prim. root, prop. to dash to pieces, i.e. kill (a human being), especially to murder.” To murder means: “to kill (a human being) unlawfully and with premeditated malice or willfully, deliberately, and unlawfully.”—Webster’s Third New International Dictionary.
In its various forms the word ratsach occurs some forty times in the Hebrew Scriptures. Invariably it refers to the taking of human life, although not always wrongly or unlawfully. What, then, would determine whether the word should be rendered “kill (slay)” or “murder”? It would be upon the basis of the context and also what light the rest of God’s Word sheds upon the subject. In this regard it should be noted that even the King James Version, at times, renders this Hebrew word as “murder” or “murderer.” For instance, “they slay the widow and the stranger, and murder the fatherless.” “The murderer rising with the light killeth the poor and needy.” (Ps. 94:6; Job 24:14) The Authorized Version, moreover, distinguishes between murder and accidental manslaying at Numbers 35:6-31, doing so according to the context; yet the Hebrew word involved is still ratsach: “They shall be unto you cities for refuge from the avenger; that the manslayer [ratsach] die not.” “If he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer [ratsach] shall surely be put to death.”—Num. 35:12, 16, AV.
It is evident, in the light of the rest of God’s Word, that Exodus 20:13 did not prohibit all killing, A BASIS FOR A CONTRADICTION??? for the jews were allowed to put to death, in fact, were commanded by God to put to death murderers, idol worshipers, breakers of the sabbath, and so forth. Thus execution of a murderer would not be unlawful in God’s eyes and could not be considered “murder”; it would not be in violation of Exodus 20:13. (Gen. 9:6)
It is specifically unlawful killing (slaying) of a human or murder that God prohibits. With sound Scriptural reason, then, not only Robert Young’s version, James Moffatt’s version, Knox’s translation, the Soncino version and An American Translation render ratsach at Exodus 20:13 as “murder.”
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo we end up with:
yes, it always amazes me how persons think that on the basis of a multiple rendering of the same word, that the context does not have a bearing and thus leads to contradiction???, which is nothing short of erroneous, some information and education,
a number of translations use the word “kill” at Exodus 20:13; among these are the Douay Version, th ...[text shortened]... ion, the Soncino version and An American Translation render ratsach at Exodus 20:13 as “murder.”
Law 5: No unlawful killing.
Sounds redundant. 😛
Originally posted by sonhouseWe are the product of a long string of good (from a human POV) luck
Neither humans nor some god did it. We are the product of a long string of good (from a human POV) luck. For instance, if it had not been for the disaster that struck the dino's down 65 megayears ago, vocanoes, asteroid, whatever, we would still be little mice sized deals scampering about under the feet of dinosaurs. There have been so many major extinction ...[text shortened]... ve come about but, no god needed, it came about all unaided by anything but luck and mutations.
I see you are insane enough to believe so.
Originally posted by SwissGambitIt should be something like: thou shalt not kill unless expressly permitted or commanded to do so by further provisions in this law. But if you've ever tried chiseling text into stone you will know why moses shortened it up a bit.
So we end up with:
Law 5: No unlawful killing.
Sounds redundant. 😛
Originally posted by twhiteheadEvidently, the asterisk (*) had not yet been invented.
It should be something like: thou shalt not kill unless expressly permitted or commanded to do so by further provisions in this law. But if you've ever tried chiseling text into stone you will know why moses shortened it up a bit.