Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard membersonship
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    26 Feb '19 15:252 edits
    The intellectual incongruence and moral hypocrisy expressed in your OP is astonishing considering that you consider the (eternal) burning alive of billions of people to be morally acceptable and in fact the “perfect justice” for them not believing in your version of god.


    1.) Did Jesus Christ commit intellectual in congruence to teach that men should fear God's unlimited reach in punishing ? See Luke 12:4,5.

    2.) Did Jesus commit "moral hypocrisy" in teaching the lesson of Luke 12:4,5?

    3.) Does "astonishment" at a teaching from Christ necessarily mean what is taught in not true ?

    4.) If "burning alive" is what I teach why did were you not able to prove that physical death means non-existence ?

    5.) Did the Bible tell you the count of how many sinners will be lost? Where do you get your assurance that "billions" will be lost? I simply ask you HOW DO YOU KNOW the count ? That is all.

    6.) Do you believe that God is perfect in morality ? Yes or No ?

    7.) Do you believe is obligated to FORCE all men to desire reconciliation to God ?

    8.) Do you believe it is just for God to warn the irrecoverable that they will not enjoy never being reconciled or forgiven by God - and in terms which are impossible to misunderstand?

    8.) Do you believe "perfect justice" by nature cannot include punishment ?

    9.) Do you assume that I know all the ways in which someone's name may be entered into "the book of life" ?

    10.) Do you assume that I believe the unevangelized or have never heard the gospel must be lost?

    11.) Do you assume that I believe that because I believe Christ's teaching I should be qualified to personally conduct the last judgment myself ?

    12.) Do you assume that I believe there is no opportunity for some died in ambiguous or difficult to ascertain (by Christians) circumstances?

    Divegeester, these questions are primarily for you about your above paragraph to me.
    Let your next post consist of twelve answers please TO the twelve questions.
  2. SubscriberFMF
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    26 Feb '19 15:38
    If you'd had the opportunity in 1945, might you have printed Revelation 20:14,15 onto leaflets and had the Allied air forces drop them over the compounds of Nazi concentration camps as the Allied troops coming to liberate the surviving Jews drew near?
  3. Stargazing
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    26 Feb '19 21:36
    @sonship said:

    “Divegeester, these questions are primarily for you about your above paragraph to me. Let your next post consist of twelve answers please TO the twelve questions.”

    Sonship, I will begin answering your questions when you answer mine in the OP of “calling out sonship” thread.
  4. Standard membersonship
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    27 Feb '19 05:141 edit
    @divegeester

    Sonship, I will begin answering your questions when you answer mine in the OP of “calling out sonship” thread.


    No you won't.

    This is a device that you will always employ to not address my questions.

    You will never be able to control people. Answers you don't like will always be your excuse to imagine that you have not been answered.

    I have some points to make which don't require you to answer anything.
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    27 Feb '19 05:17
    @fmf said
    If you'd had the opportunity in 1945, might you have printed Revelation 20:14,15 onto leaflets and had the Allied air forces drop them over the compounds of Nazi concentration camps as the Allied troops coming to liberate the surviving Jews drew near?
    sonship, would you have warned them that the Nazi death camps were the least of their worries [according to your beliefs]?
  6. Standard membersonship
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    27 Feb '19 05:232 edits
    1.) Did Jesus Christ commit intellectual incongruence [edited] to teach that men should fear God's unlimited reach in punishing ? See Luke 12:4,5.

    If I commit intellectual incongruence for believing Christ's word in Luke 12:4,5 then I do so according to Christ's intellect.

    2.) Did Jesus commit "moral hypocrisy" in teaching the lesson of Luke 12:4,5?

    If I commit "moral hypocrisy" in believing the lesson Christ taught in Luke 12:4,5 then I do so according to Christ's morality.

    3.) Does "astonishment" at a teaching from Christ necessarily mean what is taught in not true ?

    There are things in the Word of God which are astounding.
    There are things taught by Jesus Christ which are astonishing.

    One day when we are fully conformed to the image of the Firstborn Son of God (Rom 8:29) believers will see EVERYTHING through the eyes of the Son of God. We may not see everything through His eyes yet and are astonished at some things.
  7. Standard membersonship
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    27 Feb '19 05:471 edit
    4.) If "burning alive" is what I teach why did were you not able to prove that physical death means non-existence ?

    Revelation 20:14 says that death is discarded into the lake of fire.
    Verse 15 says those whose names are not recorded in the book of life are cast there.

    So they cannot be alive. It is the second death not "the second life."

    Since it is a realm in which NO ONE alive has experience God must communicate it to us in terms that we can understand.
    And no one, including Divegeester, has yet shown in the thread Does Death Mean Non-existence that physical death means non-existence.

    5.) Did the Bible tell you the count of how many sinners will be lost? Where do you get your assurance that "billions" will be lost? I simply ask you HOW DO YOU KNOW the count ? That is all.

    When Jesus Christ was asked whether it would be few who would be saved, He gave no definite numbers.
    In modern Internet terms He would have been accused of dodging the question.

    It is none of our business to know the counts at the very, very end of all finality.
    He answered that many will seek to enter and will not be able.

    This answer assumes that you have to be seeking to enter.
    Many are ignorant and are not seeking to enter something that they do know needs to be sought to enter.

    The Christian is to preach the gospel.
    The Christian (not the skeptic) has any idea of FINAL statistics of those lost forever.

    I find many caveats in the Bible which indicate that we should expect surprises.
  8. Standard membersonship
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    27 Feb '19 05:494 edits
    6.) Do you believe that God is perfect in morality ? Yes or No ?

    Jesus TAUGHT Luke 12:4,5. If you are a Christian either you believe He is PERFECT in absolute goodness and taught it or He is IMPERFECT in absolute goodness and taught it.

    I believe the FORMER.
    No one has indicated that the interpretation of Luke 12:4,5 doesnt mean punishment beyond physical death and beyond what human beings are able to inflict.

    7.)
    Do you believe is obligated to FORCE all men to desire reconciliation to God ?

    The point has to come when a man feels the terrible weight and responsibility of his own free will.
    God created beings with the ability and right to CHOOSE.

    It is both a wonderful gift and can be a terrible one if the will of God is not chosen.

    God desires all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth.

    8.) Do you believe it is just for God to warn the irrecoverable that they will not enjoy never being reconciled or forgiven by God - and in terms which are impossible to misunderstand?

    Non-existence is not the result of physical death.
    Since it is a realm which by experience no one alive can discuss, we better take Gods word for it that the state exists. It exists and can be one of suffering.

    9.)
    Do you believe "perfect justice" by nature cannot include punishment ?

    A few times in the Old Testament God told the Israelites - Your eye shall not pity.
    It may astound us but there is a realm in which even the pity of God is no longer available.

    The critics job is to make it as if that realm is right around the corner, is close, is easy to fall into to.
    It may not be at all easy to fall into.
    But that does not make it non-existent.

    A favorite psalm of Divegeester is Psalm 136 in which it is repeated in every verse that God's mercy endures forever.
    Yet even in that Psalm of His mercy there is judgment on some.

    Ie. Verse 10 - To Him who struck Egypt in their firstborn; For His mercy endures forever.
    Verse 15 - And shook off Pharoah and his force into the Red Sea. For His mercy endures forever.
    Verse 17 - To Him who struck great kings, For His mercy endures forever.

    In enduring mercy God will sometimes have to judge His enemies who trouble His people on whom He is having mercy.
  9. Stargazing
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    27 Feb '19 06:01
    @sonship said
    @divegeester

    Sonship, I will begin answering your questions when you answer mine in the OP of “calling out sonship” thread.


    No you won't.
    Oh yes I will.
  10. Standard membersonship
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    27 Feb '19 06:103 edits
    @divegeester

    Oh yes I will.

    No you won't. I don't think about it anymore.
    The questions were rhetorical. Discussion can take place despite your refusal to answer.

    I expect you to live on in the past and in your imagination.

    I expect you to make excuses for not being able to control others' words in reply to your questions.
  11. Stargazing
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    27 Feb '19 06:13
    @sonship said
    @divegeester

    Oh yes I will.


    No you wont. I don't think about it anymore.
    I expect you to live on in the past and in your imagination.

    I expect you to make excuses for not being able to control others' words in reply to your questions.
    My post about your church’s position on the trinity and your inability to discuss my OP remains glaringly avoided by you, I wonder why that is....

    When you answer my question unequivocally I will answer yours.
  12. Standard membersonship
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    27 Feb '19 06:162 edits
    @divegeester

    My post about your church’s position on the trinity and your inability to discuss my OP remains glaringly avoided by you, I wonder why that is....

    When you answer my question unequivocally I will answer yours.

    Anyone interested - read thread on Calling Out Sonship etc. etc. from the top. See how I answered Divegeester.
  13. Stargazing
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    27 Feb '19 06:181 edit
    @sonship said
    I expect you to make excuses for not being able to control others' words in reply to your questions.
    In my opinion you are in a cult sonship and you are being manipulated.

    It’s obvious to anyone here (except possibly Philokalia who seems to have difficulty following threads from one day to the next) that you refuse to address my OP in that thread because you are concerned about disagreeing with your overlords publically.
  14. Stargazing
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    27 Feb '19 06:191 edit
    @sonship said
    @divegeester

    My post about your church’s position on the trinity and your inability to discuss my OP remains glaringly avoided by you, I wonder why that is....

    When you answer my question unequivocally I will answer yours.

    Anyone interested - read thread on Calling Out Sonship etc. etc. from the top. See how I answered Divegeester.
    We have all read it sonship!

    Your responses did not answer the questions and you know it. You can’t hide here.
  15. Stargazing
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    27 Feb '19 06:22
    @sonship said
    @divegeester
    I expect you to make excuses for not being able to control others' words in reply to your questions.
    Expecting you to answer a question unequivocally is not “control”, it’s very odd that you think it is.
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