1. Standard membersonship
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    07 Jul '14 23:25
    In this thread I will first demonstrate that there is a principle of an antichrist teaching that even some Christians work by.

    From examining how the apostle John spoke of many antichrists coming into the world, I will show that this does not only mean those who deny Christ. There is at work among some Christians, that though they are saved, they have a tendency to deny some aspect of who Jesus Christ is.

    In John's day the gnostics denied that Jesus Christ had come in the flesh.
    This was indentified by the Apostle John as the work of antichrist spirit.

    And today some people like RJHinds want to deny another aspect of Who Christ is. They want to deny that "the Lord [Jesus Christ] is the Spirit" .

    This is a PRINCIPLE of an antichrist. That is to try to rob Christ of something of what the Bible teaches Christ IS.
  2. Standard membersonship
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    07 Jul '14 23:45
    The principle of an antichrist teaching is to DENY any particular aspect of what or who Jesus Christ is. In the early Christian era one example was seen in the epistle of First John.

    Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but prove the spirits whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

    In this you know the Spirit of God. Every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,

    And every spirit which does not confess Jesus is not of God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming and now is already in the world. (1 John 4:1-3)


    It is not the specifics of THESE particular error which are the ONLY evidences of a spirit of antichrist at work. Certainly to deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh is the result of the spirit of antichrist deceiving men.

    But there could conceivably be other denials that indicate the same spirit of antichrist at work.

    For example, some on the forum deny that Jesus Christ is God.
    That denial of an aspect of what Jesus is is ALSO an indication of the antichrist spirit at work.

    For example, some teachers deny that Jesus is the Spirit.
    Second Corinthians 3:17 says "Now the Lord is the Spirit".
    Some have put up a fight against saying that Jesus the Son of God is the Holy Spirit.

    This too is along the line of the principle of robbing Christ of something that the Bible teaches Christ IS. The spirit of antichrist is at work in those Christian teachers, though they be saved, have been led deceptively to deny that "the Lord [Jesus Christ] is the Spirit".

    Some teachers deny that the Lord Jesus is the Father incarnate.
    Isaiah 9:6 says that the "son ... given" shall be called "Eternal Father" .

    Some teachers like RJHinds want to deny that the Son could be the Eternal Father. This too indicates an antichrist attempt to deny SOME aspect of who Jesus IS according to the Bible.

    It is not only the problem the Apostle John faced in the Gnostics of his day. It is also a problem faced by the Christian church today in those teachers who feel to fight against:

    1.) The Lord Jesus is the Spirit.

    2.) The Son of God is the Father.

    Among these trying to short change Christ is SOME aspect of what the word of God says He IS is RJHinds, as he levels "false teacher" accusations against teachers who wish to proclaim ALL that the Bible teaches about Jesus Christ.
  3. Standard membersonship
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    07 Jul '14 23:57
    " ... the principle of antichrist is to deny some aspect of Christ's Person and replace it with something other than Christ. If someone denies an aspect of Christ revealed in the Scriptures, that one is following the principle of antichrist, although what he is doing may be done unconsciously and unintentionally. Likewise, if someone replaces an aspect of Christ with something that is not of Christ, he is also practicing the principle of antichrist.


    From the Life Study of First John by Witness Lee

    The teaching among today's Christians follows this principle, at least to some extent. For instance, the traditional teaching concerning the Trinity is not complete. Moreover, this teaching makes the Trinity an objective doctrine that has very little to do with Christian experience. Some teach that the One who dwells in us is only the Spirit, representing the Son and the Father, who are in the heavens. These are illustrations of inaccurate and incomplete teachings concerning the Trinity.


    We believers in Christ should affirm all that the Bible affirms about Christ. If the Bible affirms that God sent the Son, and the Son prays to the Father, and the Son obeys the Father, and the Son is raised by the Father, and the Son is exalted by the Father in ascension, and the Son intercedes to the Father, and the Son is at the right hand of the Father, we Christians should believe this.

    To deny these matters would be to be operating in part in the spirit of antichrist.

    If the Bible affirms that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Father (Isaiah 9:6) , and He is IN the FAther and the Father in Him, and to see Him is to see the Father, then we should affirm these truths also.

    If we do not but deny them then this is also in the principle of an antichrist spirit.

    Likewise if the Bible says "Now the Lord is that Spirit" yet for the sake of some creed we are afraid or reluctant to confess that Jesus is the Spirit, then this also is in the principle of antichrist.

    It is to rob Christ of SOME aspect of what the word of God teaches that he is. We should not want to be influenced by the principle of denying ANY scriptural aspect of Who and What Jesus Christ is.

    The troubles is presents to our creeds should not cause us to deny the facts stated in the Bible.
  4. Standard memberDeepThought
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    08 Jul '14 00:01
    RJHinds is not the antichrist.
  5. Joined
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    08 Jul '14 00:10
    Originally posted by sonship
    In this thread I will first demonstrate that there is a [b]principle of an antichrist teaching that even some Christians work by.

    From examining how the apostle John spoke of many antichrists coming into the world, I will show that this does not only mean those who deny Christ. There is at work among some Christians, that though they are saved, the ...[text shortened]... ntichrist. That is to try to rob Christ of something of what the Bible teaches Christ IS.[/b]
    are you seriously trying to engage rj in serious debate?
  6. Standard membersonship
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    08 Jul '14 00:12
    What some Christians like RJHinds fight for have today is often only an objective religion with teachings and regulations. It is something like the religion of Islam which keeps God only objective.

    So to teach that the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ within us Christians, is a subjective truth that they may resist in order to keep three Persons separated in there creedal formulas.


    We may see RJHinds fight against Evolution and insist that God is the Creator. As important it is to believe that God is the Creator, it is also important to see that the Triune God desires to impart Himself into man. For this the Lord, the Son of God became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45).

    It is of the principle of antichrist to deny that Christ is today the life giving Spirit. This teaching is crucial to Jesus Christ being the life of Christians to be lived.

    But to only fight for God being the Creator, though necessary, it is rather mostly objective. RJHinds considers this so crucial that we turn from Evolution to believe God is the Designer of life. I do not disagree that seeing God as the Author of life is biblical. But it is also crucial to see ALL That Jesus Christ is taught to be, including He is the embodiment of His Father and is the Lord Spirit as well, to enter into man to be our life.

    The Triune God's plan is to be within us. In this sense, much of the teaching among today's Christians is in the principle of antichrist, because they fight against aspects of the Bible's revelation which stress the indwelling of Jesus Christ to the saved.

    Although sometimes this opposition to subject truths is unintentionally, other times it is persistent and stubborn either in denying certain aspects of Christ or in replacing Christ with other things.


    All the virtues in our human living should be Christ Himself as the embodiment of the Triune God expressed from within us. Christ should be our love, humility, kindness, meekness, patience.


    For this to occur Christ has to be life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45) and has to be the Lord Spirit. Yet some under the deceptive principle of antichrist think they are serving Christ by denying these revelations about Who He is.
  7. Standard membersonship
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    08 Jul '14 00:142 edits
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    are you seriously trying to engage rj in serious debate?
    Sure. But he doesn't have to answer.
    Or he may choose to do so latter.

    You can reply for him if it is along the line of the topic and not some off the track stuff about your atheism.
  8. Standard membersonship
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    08 Jul '14 00:16
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    RJHinds is not the antichrist.
    I never said that he was the antichrist.

    What I am writing about is the PRINCIPLE of antichrist which some Christian teachers can display.

    What I am writing about is the spirit of antichrist which can influence some dear Christian brothers who want creeds to transcend the pure statements of the Bible.
  9. Standard membersonship
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    08 Jul '14 00:24
    Come and argue with me RJHinds.

    I didn't say you were the antichrist.
    I didn't say you were an antichrist.

    I said that some people like yourself are under the principle of antichrist in that you want to deny SOME aspect of the total revelation of who Christ is.

    Just as brother Witness Lee said below:

    Concerning certain aspects of Christ's Person, many believers follow tradition and neglect the revelation of the Bible. If we are fair, we shall realize that Isaiah 9:6 says that the Son is called the Father and that 2 Corinthians 3:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:45b reveal that Christ is the life-giving Spirit. To deny that Christ is the eternal Father or that He is the life-giving Spirit is to be anti these aspects of His Person. In this sense, to make such a denial is to follow the principle of antichrist, which is to deny something of what Christ is.
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    08 Jul '14 03:44
    Originally posted by sonship
    In this thread I will first demonstrate that there is a [b]principle of an antichrist teaching that even some Christians work by.

    From examining how the apostle John spoke of many antichrists coming into the world, I will show that this does not only mean those who deny Christ. There is at work among some Christians, that though they are saved, the ...[text shortened]... ntichrist. That is to try to rob Christ of something of what the Bible teaches Christ IS.[/b]
    For myself the answer is easy. All one has to do is read the first chapter of the Gospel of John. Let me paraphrase, "In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us."

    Then if you need further proof, all one has to do is look at the baptism of Jesus, by John the Baptist. 'After Jesus arose from the water, heaven opened above Him and the Spirit of God hovered over Him. And a voice spoke out, this is my beloved Son.' The presence of the Trinity.
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    08 Jul '14 04:071 edit
    Sonship I'm not convinced you are practicing what you preach here.

    You say:

    "We believers in Christ should affirm all that the Bible affirms about Christ."

    Can you please indicate where in the bible the following terms which you use are stated?

    - the phrase "triune god"

    - the term "Trinity" especially with a capital T. Why would you do that when it's not even in the bible?

    - the term "Lord Spirit" - the bible states that Jesus is Lord, never once does it state "the Spirit is Lord" or there is a Lord Spirit.

    - the term "Eternal Father" - again you use a capital E. I can find very few and somewhat non-mainstream translations which use "Eternal" at this juncture. I presume you also like the term "Eternal Son" although you do not mention it here. This term is also nowhere in the Bible.

    - the term "three distinct persons" or "three persons" or indeed the number or word "three" used as an adjective when describing the godhead. However, many many times throughout the bible, god is described as "one", in fact over and over and over again, he describes himself through the prophets this way. Note I do not capitalise it.

    Finally the term "principle of antichrist" does not appear anywhere in any bible translation. So I feel that to accuse someone of being influenced by such a thing is a little rich considering the argument you are leveraging is that we are to adhere to scripture.

    It seems to me you may need a dose of your own medicine.
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    08 Jul '14 04:091 edit
    Originally posted by Pudgenik
    For myself the answer is easy. All one has to do is read the first chapter of the Gospel of John. Let me paraphrase, "In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us."

    Then if you need further proof, all one has to do is look at the baptism of Jesus, by John the Baptist. 'After Jesus aro ...[text shortened]... d hovered over Him. And a voice spoke out, this is my beloved Son.' The presence of the Trinity.
    Why do you use a word "Trinity" to describe god, a word which does not appear in the bible?

    Importantly, why do you capitalise it?
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
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    08 Jul '14 04:56
    Originally posted by sonship
    In this thread I will first demonstrate that there is a [b]principle of an antichrist teaching that even some Christians work by.

    From examining how the apostle John spoke of many antichrists coming into the world, I will show that this does not only mean those who deny Christ. There is at work among some Christians, that though they are saved, the ...[text shortened]... ntichrist. That is to try to rob Christ of something of what the Bible teaches Christ IS.[/b]
    I only deny that the Persons of Jesus Christ is the very same Holy Spirit because Jesus said,

    I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever....

    “These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.


    (John 14:16, 25-26 NASB)

    Jesus can't be ANOTHER helper, the Holy Spirit, because He says He will ask the Father to send ANOTHER, who is the Holy Spirit.

    Jesus never claims to be the Father or the Holy Spirit, so how is it that I am trying to rob Him of an identity that He never claims to have?
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
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    08 Jul '14 05:273 edits
    Originally posted by sonship
    Come and argue with me RJHinds.

    I didn't say you were the antichrist.
    I didn't say you were an antichrist.

    I said that some people like yourself are under the principle of antichrist in that you want to deny SOME aspect of the total revelation of who Christ is.

    Just as brother Witness Lee said below:

    Concerning certain aspec ...[text shortened]... is to follow the principle of antichrist, which is to deny something of what Christ is.
    The following tells what the everlasting or perpetual Father in Isaiah 9:6 means:

    For to which of the angels did He ever say,

    “You are My Son,
    Today I have begotten You”?

    And again,

    “I will be a Father to Him
    And He shall be a Son to Me”?

    And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,

    “And let all the angels of God worship Him.”

    And of the angels He says,

    “Who makes His angels winds,
    And His ministers a flame of fire.”

    But of the Son He says,

    “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
    And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.
    “You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
    Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
    With the oil of gladness above Your companions.”


    (Hebrew 1:5-9 NASB)

    He is to become a perpetual Father of His Kingdom of believers that become His sons by their resurrection into eternal life.
    The Son is NOT His own Father. Even if it were to be translated so that the son born will be called the eternal Father, it can not mean He will become His own Father.
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    08 Jul '14 12:52
    A "thumbs down" but no response from each of the two protagonists I replied to in this thread. Interesting behaviour which I expected from Pugenik (who never replies to my questions to him), but not from sonship.
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