Originally posted by Grampy BobbyMethinks Christianity sees each person as a “sinner” who has to be “saved”, because something went wrong with his designed software; furthermore, I think the solution offered by this religion is a package of ready man-made theological “answers”, all of them illogical and without philosophical value. Anyway
[b]Sin
Irrespective of your position on other spirituality topics and issues, what personal behaviors do you regard as "sin"?[/b]
I see no sin in front of G-d, I see crimes against persons, against humanity, against animals, against Life, against the environment
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Originally posted by black beetle"... because something went wrong with his designed software;" bb, God's Sovereignty and man's free will co-exist in time.
Methinks Christianity sees each person as a “sinner” who has to be “saved”, because something went wrong with his designed software; furthermore, I think the solution offered by this religion is a package of ready man-made theological “answers”, all of them illogical and without philosophical value. Anyway
I see no sin in front of G-d, I see crimes against persons, against humanity, against animals, against Life, against the environment
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyTo me, the agent who drives a person to become, say, a criminal is not its “sinful nature” but its thoughts; and I have the feeling it acts this way because it lacks of the intelligence required to dismiss these thoughts, and not because it has a “sinful nature” as a consequence of its free will
"... because something went wrong with his designed software;" bb, God's Sovereignty and man's free will co-exist in time.
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Originally posted by black beetleAnd yet highly intelligent men and women have committed overt, covert sins and heinous crimes throughout human history.
To me, the agent who drives a person to become, say, a criminal is not its “sinful nature” but its thoughts; and I have the feeling it acts this way because it lacks of the intelligence required to dismiss these thoughts, and not because it has a “sinful nature” as a consequence of its free will
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"Would you regard any overt personal behaviors which involve other people [such as murder, drunkenness, theft, fornication or adultery; or covert personal behaviors which often cluster [such as pride, jealously, bitterness, hatred, vindictiveness, implacability, envy, guilt feelings, worry, anxiety, fear or self pity] as sin? Also, what do you consider as the source of sin?
Finally, would you regard the overt personal behaviors of communications [speech and written] such as judging, maligning, bullying, gossiping, criticizing and lying sin? "So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and yet it boasts of great things. Behold how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire! And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life..." James 3:5-6 (Page 2)
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyWow. How many times have you posted and reposted and reposted these words that you are totally unwilling to then discuss? Do any of the people here who believe there is such a thing as "sin" in fact commit "sins" with their "personal behaviors of communications [speech and written]" on this forum?
Finally, would you regard the overt personal behaviors of communications [speech and written] such as judging, maligning, bullying, gossiping, criticizing and lying sin?
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyIntelligence is not just a high IQ, but a high IQ along with a high EQ. I will try to be clear.
And yet highly intelligent men and women have committed overt, covert sins and heinous crimes throughout human history.
"Would you regard any overt personal behaviors which involve other people [such as murder, drunkenness, theft, fornication or adultery; or covert personal behaviors which often cluster [such as pride, jealously, bitterness, hatred, ...[text shortened]... which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life..." James 3:5-6 (Page 2)
For example, just check Sharia “law” –it is supposed to be a complex of laws, however the people that are practicing it are a flock of morons that are living in the past. This is not some kind of absolute truth but my personal evaluation of the mind as regards this matter, in other words I strongly oppose Sharia for I have evaluated this system as a product of inner ignorance; I would do just the same if I were living in a country that is ruled under Sharia “law”, therefore I would disobey that “law” if I could not escape from there and go elsewhere. In that case, I care not whether or not I would be found “guilty” or “not guilty” according to Sharia. All I know is that I will never practice whatever destroys my intelligence, and thanks to my intelligence alone I refuse to accept that all this nonsense about Sharia “law” is the “Will of G-d”. It is not such a thing; it is merely a horrific Human invention.
Morality, justice and the rest virtues are the product of our process and our evolution within society through time. The idea that all these tools we need in order to cultivate our environment and to secure our society are “divine” and thus the “Word of God” is a delusion that serves fanaticism big time; the religious concept of “sin” as an opposition to the so called “Word of G-d” is to me pure noise too. And the same ole story: by means of our fear we bring up our delusions
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Originally posted by black beetle"I will never practice whatever destroys my intelligence..." nor will I; rational capacity, conscience and volition elevate the human race above the pyramidal food change. "And the same ole story: by means of our fear we bring up our delusions..." bb, we agree again since fear over our sins is unnecessary: sin is not an issue in eternity because of Christ's spiritual death [separation from God the Father during the final three hours on the cross which propitiated His Justice and Righteousness on our behalf]. Though our views are diametrically opposed, thank you for your objective focus on issues rather than the all too common lowest denominator penchant for emotional hip shots, intellectual dishonesty and personal attack. Kind regards,
Intelligence is not just a high IQ, but a high IQ along with a high EQ. I will try to be clear.
For example, just check Sharia “law” –it is supposed to be a complex of laws, however the people that are practicing it are a flock of morons that are living in the past. This is not some kind of absolute truth but my personal evaluation of the mind as reg ...[text shortened]... o me pure noise too. And the same ole story: by means of our fear we bring up our delusions
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Originally posted by FMFyeah but then he wouldn't be Bobby, and there's no fun in that for anyone
Yes, I'm not sure why Grampy Bobby feels the need to stage a big confessional like that. He should just be who he is and not bother with the big copy pastes offering psychological explanations for his forum persona.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyUh oh, do I sense yet another whole thread being started soon by Grampy Bobby specifically to make condescending personal remarks about unspecified people who disagree with him and who try to coax him out from behind his deflections, evasions and copious copy pastes? 🙂
Though our views are diametrically opposed, thank you for your objective focus on issues rather than the all too common lowest denominator penchant for emotional hip shots, intellectual dishonesty and personal attack. Kind regards,
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Originally posted by black beetleThe mind and intellect are dragged down by the sin nature which is in the body.
To me, the agent who drives a person to become, say, a criminal is not its “sinful nature” but its thoughts; and I have the feeling it acts this way because it lacks of the intelligence required to dismiss these thoughts, and not because it has a “sinful nature” as a consequence of its free will
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The good news is that A MAN, one and only one, has overcome this power. And His actual mind can be imparted to be united with our mind. And through His victory we too can partake of victory over sin's nature.
It is difficult for me to speak of sin without wanting to hasten to the good news. God has made provision for the problem of the guilt of sin and the power of sin.
I apologize. But being centered upon the problem of sin, ie. intently focused on sin, will not help in solving the problem of sin.
So, though it is probably premature, I find it very difficult to talk about the sin matter without wanting to mention the good news. Christ came "concerning sin" to deal with its curse.
" ... God, sending His own Son in the likeness of the flesh of sin and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit." (Rom. 8:3b,4)
Jesus Christ's victory of sin is commutable.
That is because Jesus Christ Himself is commutable.
That is because He put Himself in a form in which He can be dispensed into people's innermost spiritual being -
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45b)
I fear that anything I write on this subject of sin will not be able to stat totally away from mentioning that there is a salvation from the real guilt of sin and big power of sin.
Originally posted by sonship
Jesus Christ's victory of sin is commutable.
That is because Jesus Christ Himself is commutable.
Correcting my typo - the first sentence should have read -
"Jesus Christ's victory over sin is commutable."
Now Christ did not have the sin nature. But the source of sin, Satan, was all Christ's life seeking to inject Christ with temptation to sin.
He came in the form of a fallen man.
He came not in the form of Adam before he was corrputed.
He came in the form of man AFTER man had been corrupted by this sin nature.
My ground for saying this is here -
" ... God, sending His own Son in the likeness of the flesh of sin and concerning sin ..." (Rom. 8:3).
The man Jesus came in the likeness of the flesh of sin.
Did Jesus have the sinning nature?
The Bible says He knew no sin. But He was made sin upon the cross that we might be saved.
Second Corinthains 5:21 -
English Standard Version
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
New American Standard Bible
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Jesus the Son of God came without the sin nature, knew no sin, and was "without sin" was 1,000,000 % absolutely pleasing to the Father.
Hebrews 4:15
Holman Christian Standard Bible
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tested in every way as we are, yet without sin.
New American Standard Bible
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For we do not have a High Priest who cannot suffer with our weaknesses, but One who was tempted in all things like we are, apart from sin.
So He is today a merciful and faithful High Priest who can sympathize with all sinners. And He can indwell them imparting to them freedom from the guilt of sin and from the power of sin.
What a Savior. You have to love Him!
He knew no sin yet He carried up to the tree, the cross upon which He was crucified, our sins -
"How Himself bore up our sins in His body on the tree, in order that we, having died to sins, might live to righteousness." (1 Peter 2:24)
Peter says His death is applicable. We can use His death not only for its blood shedding redemption. But we can use His death for its killing off power - its terminating power. Through Him we can say we have died to sin. In the Holy Spirit we experience the co-death with Christ unto sinning. Something is nullified and deadened as we enjoy Someone else.
Back again to Second Corinthians 5:21 He died, having no sin, that we who believe into Him may become the righteousness of God. This is very profound. We can become not just living righteously but the righteousness of God in Him.
Weymouth New Testament
He has made Him who knew nothing of sin to be sin for us, in order that in Him we may become the righteousness of God.
World English Bible
For him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Young's Literal Translation
for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him.
When a man or woman begins to stand upon and proclaim these truths in faith they become experiencial. Seeing the standing upon these divine facts in faith activates victory, one is persuaded the he or she certainly is on the right track to believe that Jesus really is living.
As they initially turned their lives over to Jesus, in the exact same manner, they begin to step by step walk in Him, ie. live BY Him.
Colossians 2:6
New American Standard Bible
Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
King James Bible
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, walk in Him,
