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Originally posted by wolfgang59
There is certainly salvation.
I have no guilt of sin.
Sin has no power over me.
It is easy.
There is certainly salvation.
Yes. Salvation is a Person. we have to get to know this powerful yet unusual Person Jesus.
I have no guilt of sin.
Though you may deny that you have guilt, others in your life would not deny it with you. There are people who were encountered by you would would say -
"Sorry. I must be honest and inform you that wolfgang59 did indeed sin against me. He does have some guilt of sin."
Don't feel alone. We all have such people who could testify that we had sin. It is better to acknowledged this before our Savior God.
No lie can live forever. And the lie that you have no sin, cannot live forever.
Sin has no power over me.
Jesus was the only Man over whom sin had no power.
You will commit sins before you retire tonight.
None of them will be unrecorded by God.
None will go unnoticed by the Ultimate Governor of this universe.
The good news is that on the cross Jesus shed His redeeming blood that without exception, every sin might be erased before the holy God before Whom we all will appear some time at the world's end (as we have known it).
God has an infallible record of our lives whether we like it or don't like it.
There will be NO Mistakes.
There will be NO omissions.
There will be NO misunderstandings of ANY type.
There will be NO miscarriages of justice.
Where perhaps you do blame yourself, God knowing all the facts, will be able to show you that you were not completely culpable.
On the other hand where you boast to yourself or to others "I have NO sin" God, who knows all, will point out from an infallible record where you sinned.
More than that, the God who knows can show a man how his sins continued to work after him on the fabric of life, continuing to cause damage to others.
So we need salvation in Him who bore the divine judgment of God on our behalf that we might be saved.
It is easy.
It is easy now to say or write many things.
It is also not difficult for one to come to Christ if he can humble himself to admit Jesus is Lord, and be forgiven - saved forever.
Originally posted by sonshipHow is it a "lie" on wolfgang59's part? He doesn't believe he is disobeying your God figure's will so how can you possibly claim that him saying that he doesn't think he is disobeying "God will" is a deliberate deception of anyone?
No lie can live forever. And the lie that you have no sin, cannot live forever.
Originally posted by black beetleCan't you hear yourself! IQ, EQ.? What a rant. You're the final authority and everyone else is just a member of a "flock of morons"?
Intelligence is not just a high IQ, but a high IQ along with a high EQ. I will try to be clear.
For example, just check Sharia “law” –it is supposed to be a complex of laws, however the people that are practicing it are a flock of morons that are living in the past. This is not some kind of absolute truth but my personal evaluation of the mind as reg ...[text shortened]... o me pure noise too. And the same ole story: by means of our fear we bring up our delusions
😵
And this is a really good one. Even for you. "..: by means of our fear we bring up our delusions".
1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Pure noise? What do you think you know so much about. The wisdom of God's Word was around for eternity before you ever had your first thought. How arrogant can you be?
Well, anyway, that's my rant for this day. 😳
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When I was much younger, I thought to myself "I am not doing too bad according to the ten commandments. Let me see how I am doing."
I considered each commandment of the ten as best as I could remember ( I don't think I opened a Bible), and I concluded that I was not a murderer, I did not kill, I didn't lie too much or bear false witness. I was doing OK.
This was naive at best. The last commandment "You shall not covet" is impossible for one to say he has not committed. It is a commandment against the jealous feeling of envy that you want something that someone else has.
It is a commandment - "You shall not covet" which exposes that we are not satisfied in God with God Himself. Something has taken the place as being more important than God. Something has approached being an idol, even something immaterial. Someone has something that we jealously crave with envy. We covet.
The last commandment is a "catch all." Actually most of the commandments of the ten catch us, which concern not ritual but morality. we all bear false witnesss too.
Did you exaggerate? You bore false witness.
Did you only tell the part of the facts that are benefitial to a favorable outcome for yourself? You bore false witness.
Did you speak not what was the actual facts but what you WANT to have happened? You bore false witness.
Exodus 20:16 - "You shall not testify with false witness against your neighbor."
Did you speak about your neighbor not the facts that you knew, but your opinion according to what you think about them? You bore false witness.
Is there anything that is in your house which was not originally yours but over time somehow became yours? You stole.
Nothing taken from the office and never returned?
Did you ever cheat on a test in school?
You stole.
Did you "steal a kiss" ?
Did you take something from a young lady which was not rightfully yours to take, from her person?
You stole. "Thou shalt not steal."
Man fell from communion with God. Man became polluted with a foreign element that corrupted mankind. Man, in his confidence says -
"Oh is there a problem now between me and my Creator? No problem. I can fix that up with no problem."
What is an important point of the Bible? It is God coming to man to show Him - "No, you have now a problem between you and Me. You cannot fix the problem. You can cause the problem. But you cannot undo the problem. I as the Creator have to come in and fix the problem."
Man can mess up the relationship between himself and God.
Though he can mess up the relationship out of his freedom he cannot repair it once it is damaged. God has to come in and repair the damage.
The law of God was given to expose the nature corruption that has taken place in man's being.
"You say that you are OK with God. Here, keep this Law."
The law of God exposes the insidious entrenchment of this parasitic sin problem in the created but fallen human.
"Did that which is good become death to me? Absolutely not! But sin did, that it might be shown to be sin by working out death in me through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful ... For what I work out, I do not acknowledge; for what I will, this I do not practice but what I hate, this I do ... I agree with the law that it is good. Now then it is no longer I that work it out but sin that dwells in me... For I know that in me, that is my flesh, nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but to work out the good is not.
For I do not do the good which I will; but the evil which I do not will, this I practice. But if what I do not will, this I do, it is no longer I that work it out but sin that dwells in me." ( See Romans 7)
If a person writes here that they never do what they do not agree with or even hate to do, that this never happens, they are lying.
If a person boasts that in this regard there is nothing about themselves that they would have changed if they knew how, they are also not telling the truth. They have decided perhaps, that what they cannot change about themselves, they must just embrace as if it was nothing wrong with them.
Originally posted by sonshipThis thing about people doing things they don't want to do or things they hate ~ i.e. doing wrong ~ is a red herring. A person who states that they do not believe they "sin" because they do not believe they are contravening any "God's will" is not lying.
If a person writes here that they never do what they do not agree with or even hate to do, that this never happens, they are lying.
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Man does not realize the eternal and perfect perfection of the Creator. Man does no fathom the depth of God's holiness at all.
Man does not realize his Creator is Perfect and will not give up His perfection. God loves man. God really loves man. God will not give up His Perfection in Righteousness and His eternal holiness and glory for this.
How will God save man, yet in such a way that He will not give up His own PERFECTION - His eternal perfection ?
The plan of salvation is God's answer. He will forgive forever. But He will forgive in a way that maintains His glory, righteousness, dignity, and holiness.
The dept has to be paid. The dept cannot be overlooked in a sloppy and sentimental way. God's righteousness and glory must be maintained. The forgiven one is forgiven because the dept has been paid.
The one who is justified and has eternal life is not one whose dept has been forgotten in a liberal and permissive way of sentimentality. He is one whose dept has been paid in full by one able to bear the terrible judgment of paying on our behalf.
If a man feels that he just does not love Jesus no matter what, it is typical. He can begin by acknowledging that Jesus loved him.
Originally posted by sonshipI believe your god is nonsense.
When I was much younger,......
they must just embrace as if it was nothing wrong with them.
The bible is nonsense.
Practically everything you post is nonsense.
Now if you want to believe it fine (insofar as your belief does not impinge on others).
But don't expect others to.
And don't call me a liar.
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Originally posted by wolfgang59I will say with the Bible that you lie not only to yourself but to the world.
But don't expect others to.
And don't call me a liar.[/b]
American Standard Version
Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
English Revised Version
Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
You better just stop reading what I write,
because I am going teach what the Bible teaches.
"If we say that we do not have sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.... If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (1 John 1:7,10)
Originally posted by sonshipPeople who do not believe "that Jesus is the Christ" are not "liars" when they state this belief. You are using the word "liar" incorrectly ~ presumably for effect. If someone said that 'Christians deny that Jesus is the Christ', whilst knowing this to be an untrue statement, then that would be a "lie".
English Revised Version
Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
Originally posted by josephwYou probably read my post in a fever and misunderstood it, but anyway:
Can't you hear yourself! IQ, EQ.? What a rant. You're the final authority and everyone else is just a member of a "flock of morons"?
And this is a really good one. Even for you. "..: by means of our fear we bring up our delusions".
1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is ...[text shortened]... ad your first thought. How arrogant can you be?
Well, anyway, that's my rant for this day. 😳
I am the final authority when I have to decide and to act. I make decisions solely thanks to my intelligence (IQ and EQ) and I keep myself fully responsible for my decisions and my actions, that is;
As regards Sharia, yes, I firmly believe what I said. If you admire Sharia and the Sharia practitioners, so be it;
Pure noise to me, because I am an atheist; but kindly please feel free to follow your religious dogma😵
Originally posted by sonshipEdit: "The mind and intellect are dragged down by the sin nature which is in the body."
The mind and intellect are dragged down by the sin nature which is in the body.
The good news is that A MAN, one and only one, has overcome this power. And His actual mind can be imparted to be united with our mind. And through His victory we too can partake of victory over sin's nature.
It is difficult for me to speak of [b]sin with ...[text shortened]... away from mentioning that there is a salvation from the real guilt of sin and big power of sin.[/b]
At what point does a different version of “me” (1. Mind, 2. Intellect and 3. Body) cease to be “me” as regards a specific process of decision/ act of mine, then?
Does the “me” 1.Mind refer to a decision/ act of mine that alternates my consciousness?
Does my “me” 2. Intellect still has a connection with my other two “modes” of consciousness, or is it irrevocably split away? If the former, then is it therein where the other two “me” do individually inhabit? If this is the case, how can it be possible that I remain at the same time single and multiple and also having each parts observing different branches?
On the other hand, if you argue that “me” is simply my consciousness split away in three different parts and so I end up with three different consciousnesses in different (and still the same) ontological realms whilst at the same time my cognizant apparatus remains in fact just one, your idea that “the mind and intellect are dragged down by the sin nature which is in the body” is untenable.
Because of the above, your religious dogma attempts to overcome these logical contradictions with the concept of “Psychicos”, but to me this dualist approach is also unsubstantiated
😵
Originally posted by divegeesterSo refraining from meat eating because of the untold suffering it causes to caged animals should be a good place to start.......not withstanding the death is fearfully unpleasant due to the slaughtering process and the animal was quiet enjoying its simple life as well.
James 4:17
If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them.
And since men who walk the godly path are all merciful and kind and compassionate just like St Francis of Assisi...............we all must abide to whats best and right.
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Originally posted by Dasafunny, you get so upset at the thought of slaughtered animals.......yet you enjoy the thought of slaughtered muslim humans......how odd.
So refraining from meat eating because of the untold suffering it causes to caged animals should be a good place to start.......not withstanding the death is fearfully unpleasant due to the slaughtering process and the animal was quiet enjoying its simple life as well.
And since men who walk the godly path are all merciful and kind and compassionate just like St Francis of Assisi...............we all must abide to whats best and right.
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Originally posted by black beetle
At what point does a different version of “me” (1. Mind, 2. Intellect and 3. Body) cease to be “me” as regards a specific process of decision/ act of mine, then?
Its an interesting kind of question. But Romans 7 is more dealing in stark practicalities than philosophical musings.
If you do what you hate, and find yourself perplexed asking "Why did I do that stupid thing?" Paul's revelation can help.
If you delight in goodness in your mind, yet you notice that what you delight in you for some reason do not carry out, but instead do what you intellectually do not agree is what you should do, Romans 7 sheds light upon that.
I believe these are experiences that all human beings have, even if they are not familiar with the law of Moses. They find themselves captive to a force that drives them to do what they even hate to do.
"At exactly what point does the 'me' become not 'me' or some other 'me' ? " is not precisely pinpointed for our curiosity. But the end product of this slavery to sin is a feeling of wretchedness and self condemnation as well as guilt before God.
"Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?" (v. 24)
Does the “me” 1.Mind refer to a decision/ act of mine that alternates my consciousness?
Do you or do you not have this experience ?
Why are you not able to fully carry out the noble OUGHTs of your mind's agreement? And why are you so often dragged down to commit instead the OUGHT NOTs that you condemn mentally?
Jesus taught "He who commits sin is a slave to sin." (John 8:34). I can search for some wiggle room by asking "At what nanosecond exactly, do I become a slave?"
Practicality has it that freedom is more important to pursue than scientifically pinpointing the precise moment of the sinning failure.
I would say that if a person received the Holy Spirit, the light of God will increase internally in their hearts to a degree that you may catch yourself and know at what point you are in danger and need to turn to the Lord Spirit within. Actually to walk in Him, abiding in Him is what He desires rather than knowing at what point you think you need Him. You always need Him.
Does my “me” 2. Intellect still has a connection with my other two “modes” of consciousness, or is it irrevocably split away? If the former, then is it therein where the other two “me” do individually inhabit? If this is the case, how can it be possible that I remain at the same time single and multiple and also having each parts observing different branches?
I can see you want to pursue this. I have no further comment on the when the phases of "me" occur.
Do you have this experience that Paul speaks of in any regard?
I think this kind of dilemma started very early in human life.
I think you will experience this kind of captivity today.
Paul says there is a "war" going on in your fallen flesh against the better concepts of your mind. It is difficult to tell when a "war" exactly starts.
"But I see a different law in my members, WARRING against the law of my mind and making me a captive to the law of sin which is in my members." (v.23)
"At what precise millisecond does the battle commence?" is hard to pinpoint. You know the end product. You have been duped yet again, dragged down by sometuing, feeling miserable and self condemned, wondering WHY simply "knowing better" did not save you from the evil action.
On the other hand, if you argue that “me” is simply my consciousness split away in three different parts and so I end up with three different consciousnesses in different (and still the same) ontological realms whilst at the same time my cognizant apparatus remains in fact just one, your idea that “the mind and intellect are dragged down by the sin nature which is in the body” is untenable.
You may argue about something being untenable, but check your experience.
You agree that you ought not __________. But against your assent to the better goodness that you acknowledge, whatever it may be, something captures your actions and you do what you do not delight in.
Like a law, it seems something, even on general principle, acts like an attached parasitic leech upon man sucking out his blood to perform what man disagrees with.
This evil force Paul speaks of - SIN - acts in a very personified way. It deceives, it takes opportunity, it works out in one, it takes captive, it rebels on general principle for spite.
The way of intense introspection is not the way of escape. Most of your questions are concerning more introspection as if you can find within yourself a solution or at least a rational to reject Romans 7.
Paul does not say "I need more and more intense introspection, to deal with this problem." Rather Paul says a Person - Christ Jesus is alive and knowable and can deliver from the body of this death.
"Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death? Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord." (vs.24,25a)
I want freedom. I do not want to heap on introspection in a hope I can negate the need for Christ Jesus as Lord.
I don't encourage anyone to analyze to the aim of convincing oneself there is no need for Christ Jesus the Lord. Even if you do self analyze down to atoms and molecules and can scientifically pinpoint when phases of "me" come and go, you still have a stain on your conscience, you still have a transgression, you still have a sin against God's law, you still have a defacing mark upon your character. And you still need deliverance from "the body of this death" - ie. this helplessness.
I grant that some introspection is being put forth by the Apostle Paul. I do not think it is introspection for its own sake. His goal is to show us our need for a stronger law, (an unusual living Person) to get into us - "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 8:1,2)
The rest will have to be looked at latter.