Originally posted by sonshipNo philosophical musings; I don’t do what I hate and I don’t keep myself delighted or sorry because of my thoughts and actions. Mea culpa is solely mea culpa and I try to avoid doing the same errors more than once😵At what point does a different version of “me” (1. Mind, 2. Intellect and 3. Body) cease to be “me” as regards a specific process of decision/ act of mine, then?
Its an interesting kind of question. But Romans 7 is more dealing in stark practicalities than philosophical musings.
If you do what you [b]hate, and find yourself pe ...[text shortened]... Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 8:1,2) [/b]
The rest will have to be looked at latter.[/b]
Originally posted by sonshipRedefining words are we?
[quote] [b] American Standard Version
Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
[/b]
These are my definitions:
Liar: Someone who claims to believe in a god.
Fool: Someone who constantly reminds himself to believe in fairytales.
Idiot: Someone who gives their life meaning by preaching on a chess site!
You sir are one of the biggest liars, biggest fools and grandest idiots I have ever come across.
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Originally posted by redbadgerAre you speaking of Christ ? He knows you very well. And He has watched you all of your life. Perhaps you have not met Christ yet. But I assure you that the eyes of God have been upon you.
he has not had the pleasure of meeting me
Here is a favorite Hymn I know on this matter:
There is no love like the love of Jesus,
Never to fade or fall,
Till into the rest of the house of God
He has gathered us all.
Chorus:
Jesus' love precious love,
Boundless, and pure, and free;
Oh, turn to that love, weary wande'ring soul;
Jesus pleadeth for thee.
There is no heart like the heart of Jesus,
Filled with a tender love;
No throb nor throe that our hearts can know,
But He feels it above.
There is no eye like the eye of Jesus,
Piercing so far away;
Ne'er out of the sight of its tender light
Can the wanderer stray.
There is no voice like the voice of Jesus,
Tender and sweet its chime;
Like musical ring of the flowing spring
In the bright summertime.
Oh, let us hark to the voice of Jesus!
Then we shall never roam;
And we shall rest on His loving breast,
And with Him we'll be one!
(Living Stream Ministry, Hymns, #1012)
This saint really had experience with Christ.
This was surely written out of personal experience.
Originally posted by sonshipYou cannot assure anyone.
...I assure you that the eyes of God have been upon you.
You are deluded.
You believe there is a god (that is your personal choice)
You cannot assure anyone -including yourself - that god exists
Around the world there are thousands that can "assure" you
that their religion is correct and that their god(s) exist(s).
The phenomenon is known and partly understood.
You can convince yourself that you have been contacted by your deity.
It is the mind playing tricks on you. Its all false. Baseless fairytales.
Originally posted by wolfgang59no voices in my head no remorse, enjoying the sinning greatly.
You cannot assure anyone.
You are deluded.
You believe there is a god (that is your personal choice)
[b]You cannot assure anyone -including yourself - that god exists
Around the world there are thousands that can "assure" you
that their religion is correct and that their god(s) exist(s).
The phenomenon is known and partly understood.
You ...[text shortened]... tacted by your deity.
It is the mind playing tricks on you. Its all false. Baseless fairytales.[/b]
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Originally posted by redbadger
no voices in my head no remorse, enjoying the sinning greatly.
no voices in my head no remorse, enjoying the sinning greatly.
You are putting confidence in some broad generalizations.
IE. "All speaking to my heart is speaking in my head. None are legitimate. Therefore all conviction of conscience, all prompting in my heart can be safely dismissed."
This is generalization. There may be crazy speakings to one's self. And there may be speakings to one's self which should be taken more seriously.
Wolfgang59 with a broad brush stroke longs to dismiss all conviction in the human conscience as schizophrenic "speaking in my head."
We see this kind of broad brush wide generalizations to rationalize no valid conviction in the conscience need be taken as the Spirit of God working upon a man's heart. If the atheist can safely dismiss all conviction, subsuming everything under crazy "speaking in the head" of a schizophrenic nature, then he can have a rationale which may include hardening his heart against the loving conviction of a holy God.
As for sin being an enjoyment? Yes, for a season there is indeed an enjoyment. But eventually sinning yields a crop. When that crop latter grows up in a sinner's life it is not so enjoyable.
Now, the foolish one may boast of the gas he is having committing all kinds of sins. Wait until latter in life when that crop begins to grow up from all the seeds of sin one has sown. It will not END up as a joy at all. It can end in tragedy.
It is God's mercy to see ahead what the temporary enjoyment of sin is doing down the road to the sinner.
The Gospel is to enjoy. There is something ELSE that is a greater enjoyment. And that is the enjoyment of having Jesus Christ live within.
Originally posted by sonshipPersonal sin is not the issue at salvation nor at the Judgment Seat of Christ: He satisfied [propitiated] the demands of God the Father's Justice and Righteousness [Integrity] on our behalf during the final three hours of His crucifixion at Golgotha. Christ's spiritual death [separation from God the Father] not His physical death was efficacious for salvation. The only issue is whether an individual chooses for or against Christ [accepting or rejecting the grace gift of eternal life He purchased]. Sin is an issue for believers: I John 1:9. "The Gospel is to enjoy." For some unbelievers it may create an unwelcome dilemma.no voices in my head no remorse, enjoying the sinning greatly.
You are putting confidence in some broad generalizations.
IE. "All speaking to my heart is speaking in my head. None are legitimate. Therefore all conviction of conscience, all prompting in my heart can be safely dismissed."
This is generalization. There may be c ...[text shortened]... hing ELSE that is a greater enjoyment. And that is the enjoyment of having Jesus Christ live within.
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyThe judgment seat of Christ is only for those for whom the issue of eternal redemption has been already decided in the affirmative.
Only believers will appear before the judgment seat of Christ. And the issue there is reward or punishment (discipline) pertaining to the thousand year millennial kingdom.
Concerning eternal redemption, it is entirely true that my sins have been judged upon the cross of Calvary. But reward or discipline is still a matter Jesus will decide concerning me, and you, and Paul, and all other Christians.
The New Testament says that we will receive from God the things done in the body whether they be good or bad.
"For we must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done through the body according to what he has practiced whether good or bad." (2 Cor. 4:10)
These facts are evident:
1.) The audience of the letter is saved Christians.
2.) The issue of eternal redemption and forgiveness of sins has been solved for them already in view of them belonging TO Jesus Christ.
3.) Nevertheless they will have to appear before "the judgment seat of Christ" and be "manifested" as to what their CHRISTIAN life has been. This is not to decide eternal redemption but reward or discipline.
4.) Paul includes HIMSELF and the audience - "we MUST all be manifested before the judgement seat of Christ".
5.) It says we will receive the things done in our [Christian] body "whether good OR BAD". That means SINCE we became believers how did we use our bodies in living unto Jesus.
There is the possibility then that though I am eternally redeemed I could be negatively rewarded for something "BAD" done in my body SINCE I became a believer in Christ.
I am sure of these things and it would be futile for you to attempt to change my understanding about this. But you go believe as you think you should understand the matter.
Then there is another way to look at the judgment seat of Christ. The Bible says mainly addressing Christians in First John -
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)
That is a WONDERFUL promise. He is faithful and RIGHTEOUS to forgive us our sins. But there is potentially a problem, not a problem to eternal salvation but a problem to reward or discipline in the millennial kingdom.
The Problem: Suppose a Christian does not confess his sin? Suppose, for example, a Christian brother has a sin of unforgiveness for an offense suffered from another Christian. And suppose he never confesses his unforgiveness towards that brother to receive grace to forgive and forget.
"IF ... we [Christians] confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us ...""
That sin HAS to be confessed SOMETIME.
If the believer dies not confessing what the Holy Spirit has convicted him of as a sin, he can only postpone temporarily the need to confess that sin. If he does not confess in this age, during the judgment seat of Christ he WILL confess. Or he will confess perhaps during the millennial kingdom while he is being punished temporarily rather than being rewarded.
The question of his eternal redemption is settled forever. He will never perish eternally. But if he has confessed something that during the church age God shined upon as a sin, he WILL confess it to be cleansed.
So after reading your good points more than once, I still was not sure that you understand the difference between the eternal judgment and the judgment of Christians at "the judgment seat of Christ".
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Excuse me. This was a typo edited and corrected below.
The question of his eternal redemption is settled forever. He will never perish eternally. But if he has [not] confessed something that during the church age God shined upon as a sin, he WILL confess it to be cleansed [edited] some time after the church age and before the eternal age.
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Some year/s back I wrote a thread on something like "Five Types of Forgiveness".
There is indeed forgiveness for eternal life. But there is the forgiveness that the saved believer also seeks for continued enjoyment of fellowship with God on daily and moment to moment basis.
This is the forgiveness mentioned in First John 1:9,10.
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Let's say a man gets saved today by receiving Jesus as his Lord and Savior. He is eternally saved and secure in eternal redemption.
Now the Lord begins to grow within him and meets some opposition. One day the Holy Spirit convicts him -
"You know the way you speak to your wife is not right. You should confess your sinful way for cleansing to continue in sweet fellowship with Me and in harmony with your dear wife whom you have offended."
The spiritually young Christian should confess his sin and believe in the Lord's cleansing blood. He does and grace from God flow in to help him to now overcome that confessed and forsaken sin. In this way he grows. In this way the light of God shines more and more penetratingly into every aspect of his living over his whole life.
And sweet communion is maintained with the Holy Spirit.
But if he refuses to acknowledge his sin of speaking this way to his wife he will be stopped in his growth. His fellowship with God also will suffer.
Suppose he never acknowledges his wrong and goes to die. That part of his soul still is untransformed.
The age of eternity does not begin right after the first resurrection. There is the intervening millennial kingdom reward of a thousand years. And at the beginning of that there is the judgement seat of Christ.
The resurrected saved man has something he has to settle with the Lord the Righteous Judge. He has postponed the confession of his sin. He can no longer postpone it. The "flavor" of God's dealing with His people will be different then the flavor during the church age.
He is now in the age of the millennial kingdom. And he will receive in the way of reward or punishment for the things done in the body when he was in the age of grace.
But there are caveats. There is hope. Any discipline is temporary. Any punishment cannot last longer than one thousand years. It may last some smaller portion of that.
And to the merciful God will show mercy. And as one judged so will he be judged. It does not exactly say "Don't Judge." It says, be warned that AS you judge you also will BE judged. There is a difference.
"Do not judge, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged; and with what measure you measure, it shall be measured to you." (Matt. 7:1)
This is FOR the Christian appearing before the judgment seat of Christ for reward or discipline at the commencement of the millennial kingdom age.
"For WE [including the Apostle Paul] must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done through the body according to what he has practiced, whether good or bad.
Knowing therefore the fear of the Lord, we persuade men, ..." (2 Cor. 5:10-11a)
In his letter Paul was still persuading Christian men about the potential fearful matter of being manifested before the Lord's judgment seat. Though I have eternal life, I still will be examined by the Lord Jesus about my Christian life.
"The work of each [Christian] will become manifest; for the day [the day of the judgment seat of Christ] will declare it, because it is revealed by fire, and the fire itself will prove each one's work, of what sort it is.
If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward.
If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:13-15)