Originally posted by josephwSame here, but I can't say I'm grateful for their efforts. What I felt was a sense of irony that they would be pushing me away as God was pulling me in. It was like they were saying, "Here God, you can have him... we don't want him anymore."
Well, I've had an amazingly good time! Unbeknownst to those who hold a contrary view of the scriptures, they have inadvertently served God to help deepen my faith, and to them I extend my gratitude because they unwittingly serve God to that end. imo 😉
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-Removed-But now I do know, or did you miss my recent message explaining that I now know what 'worm' means?
And now that this question has been answered (for both of us) maybe you would be so kind as to not ignore/deflect/evade my message to you on page 15 of this thread.
posted by divegeester
I told you I did not believe that the lake of fire was literal. What it represents is irrelevant.
posted by lemon lime
You could at least offer some hint or explanation of what you think it represents, because simply saying it's a metaphor is not enough. Calling the lake of fire a metaphor because it doesn't appeal to you or seem right is not a persuasive argument... it's meaningless unless you are able illustrate what you believe the lake of fire represents.
Metaphors (in the Bible) are easily distinguishable from statements meant to be taken literally. Symbolism more often than not come with explanations, either within the same text or elsewhere in the Bible. For example, prophesies alluding to horns and beasts (and mountains) refer to nations and kingdoms, and it's commonly understood that the word "horn" denotes strength, power and dominion.
If the lake of fire is not literal then what it represents is relevant, but what can a 'metaphorical' lake of fire represent other than the image of a consuming fire?
You were essentially saying you cannot answer the question because you don't know what it represents (The Lake of Fire) but at the same time you know it's irrelevant. How can you know it's irrelevant if you don't know what it means? And how can it be irrelevant if it goes to the heart of whether or not there will be eternal suffering? How can you know it (The Lake of Fire) is a metaphor (not literal) if you don't know what it represents?
It seems your entire argument (as well as defense of your argument) is hopelessly dependent on what you don't know.
Originally posted by lemon limeOn page 41 I asked you "Do you think there is an eternity of torture in some kind of a "fire" in store for those that don't make it to heaven, or do you think death is the end for them?" and you dished out a mixture of waffly evasions and unfunny insults for five pages ~ until page 46 ~ before finally admitting that your answer was "I don't know". So, now, here on page 56 you're saying "I do know". Just be clear. What is it you are claiming to know?
But now I [b]do know, or did you miss my recent message explaining that I now know what 'worm' means?[/b]
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Originally posted by FMFGood grief...
On page 41 I asked you "Do you think there is an eternity of torture in some kind of a "fire" in store for those that don't make it to heaven, or do you think death is the end for them?" and you dished out a mixture of waffly evasions and unfunny insults for five pages ~ until page 46 ~ before finally admitting that your answer was [b]"I don't know". So, no ...[text shortened]... on page 56 you're saying "I do know". Just be clear. What is it you are claiming to know?[/b]
I now know what "and the worm dieth not" means. Do you want me find the page for you?
edit: page 50
posted by lemon lime
The Lake of Fire is not Hell. Hell and The Lake of Fire are two different places. I have been saying that I don't know if The Lake of Fire is eternal or not. But just recently I've learned what "and their worm never dies" means, so it does appear there is some eternal aspect to torment in the Lake of Fire.
I don't know why you're having so much trouble understanding this. But If you try really hard to remember what I'm saying here in this message, then maybe you won't have to work so hard at keeping your own story straight.
Originally posted by lemon limeSo all of a sudden, on this thread, after decades and decades of being a Christian, you now have decided that you "know" that there is eternal torture as a punishment for those that aren't "saved"? This has suddenly happened to you on this thread?
Good grief...
I now know what "and the worm dieth not" means. Do you want me find the page for you?
Originally posted by FMFDon't worry about it, tomorrow you will forget all about this. It will fade away from your memory like a dream, and then you and dive can start all over again like this never happened.
So all of a sudden, on this thread, after decades and decades of being a Christian, you now have decided that you [b]"know" that there is eternal torture as a punishment for those that aren't "saved"? This has suddenly happened to you on this thread?[/b]
That's right FMF, this never happened... it was all a dream.
Originally posted by lemon limeYou don't feel even a little bit uncomfortable about being so fickle on such an enormous topic?
Don't worry about it, tomorrow you will forget all about this. It will fade away from your memory like a dream, and then you and dive can start all over again like this never happened.
That's right FMF, this never happened... it was all a dream.
Originally posted by lemon limeSo just to get this straight, lemon lime ~ you now believe in eternal torture [for those not "saved"] and you have believed this for about a day and a half? Have I understood you correctly?
But now I [b]do know, or did you miss my recent message explaining that I now know what 'worm' means?
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Originally posted by FMFYou haven't understood anything I've said correctly.
So just to get this straight, lemon lime ~ you now believe in eternal torture [for those not "saved"] and you have believed this for about a day and a half? Have I understood you correctly?
We shouldn't have to wait too long before reaching page 57... can you guess what I intend to do? I'll give you a hint. It has something to do with you spamming me with questions and getting me to respond immediately after I've posted a message to divegeester.