Star of Bethlehem ??

aster or astron was the Greek word used



Manny

http://www.icr.org/home/resources/resources_tracts_whentheysawthestar/


lots of good points

Manny

Originally posted by menace71
aster or astron was the Greek word used



Manny

yes, but astro- (the combining form) is used in both astrology and astronomy.

astro- means "pertaining to stars or celestial bodies, or to activities, as spaceflight, taking place outside the earth's atmosphere".

-nomy means "indicating a science or the laws governing a certain field of knowledge".

-logy means "indicating the science or study of".

From this, it could probably be argued that astronomy and astrology are the same thing. It's just that they aren't used this way in modern, colloquial English.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Writers like to spice up their works of fiction with recent events. Halley's
comet would have been talked about for years so anyone writing after 66AD would have been tempted to put in a reference to a "star".

The vast majority of scholars date Matthews gospel no earlier than 70AD.

If you look at the reference I gave you should see there is good reason to believe that all the New Testament was written before the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. Matthew was placed first because the ancients believed it was the first written. Revisionists scholars are probably estimating the date of the original manuscript copies and not the actual date of the first original.

Originally posted by menace71
http://www.icr.org/home/resources/resources_tracts_whentheysawthestar/


lots of good points

Manny

Interesting reading, thanks for posting this link!

Originally posted by galveston75
Then the Bible would have called this light an angel, not a star.
Also why didn't the magi follow it to the shephards in the field if this star was an angel?
This star never went to or was seen by God's people and no one in the fields said anything about a star at anytime.

How would the Magi know what looked like a celestial star to them be angels? Angels that appeared in the field to the shepherds would be close enough to be seen that they were not a celestial star. Anyway the Holy Bible does call angels "stars" in other places, so you are obviously wrong. When the angels were in the field with the shepherds they were no longer visible to the Magi. Also angels seem to have the ability to appear and disappear and not everyone can see them.

Originally posted by RJHinds
How would the Magi know what looked like a celestial star to them be angels? Angels that appeared in the field to the shepherds would be close enough to be seen that they were not a celestial star. Anyway the Holy Bible does call angels "stars" in other places, so you are obviously wrong. When the angels were in the field with the shepherds they were no ...[text shortened]... gi. Also angels seem to have the ability to appear and disappear and not everyone can see them.

What? The issue here is what the Bible says and does not say, not what we think. The Bibles calls the light the magi saw a "star" and never refers to that light as an "angel". The bible clearly says what the shepherds saw and heard speak was an angel and not a star.
No one else according to the bible saw this star that lead the magi to Herod "first" and then to Jesus later.

According to this scriptute: Matthew 2:9

Revised Standard Version (RSV)

9 When they had heard the king they went their way; and lo, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came to rest over the place where the child was.

Matthew 2:9
New King James Version (NKJV)
9 When they heard the king, they departed; and behold, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came and stood over where the young Child was.

This was in no way an average star, comet, etc, but something that moved from one location to another in a deliberate and planned motion. And this motion and relocating was to show to the magi where Jesus was at. Herod wanted to know this in order to have him killed if they relayed this location back to him which they didn't.
In fact this star was so precise in it's movements according to this scripture that it was directly over the house of Jesus and his parents. No triangulation or other means of locating was needed to know which house the star was over because of the normal extreem height of a normal star. But this star according to the bible stopped and then stood right over the house.
But again don't miss the point that no one else is mentioned in the Bible as seeing this or following it or just questioning it out of fear or curiousity.
The Bible in no way says God was involved in this star but it clearly says God was behind the angels.
This star was clearly not from God and with it's original directing these magi to Herod, not Jesus, proves it had a sinister purpose and could only have been controled by something evil, satan.

Originally posted by galveston75
What? The issue here is what the Bible says and does not say, not what we think. The Bibles calls the light the magi saw a "star" and never refers to that light as an "angel". The bible clearly says what the shepherds saw and heard speak was an angel and not a star.
No one else according to the bible saw this star that lead the magi to Herod "first" ...[text shortened]... s, proves it had a sinister purpose and could only have been controled by something evil, satan.

Your argument is a moot point as satan can do nothing unless God permits it (job as a reference and precedent).

However, I still maintain that your view (actually not yours but the JW official position) is conjecture and assumption based on what the JW leadership assumes that the star was and what the magi motivation was.

However in addition to the scriptural description already provided which debunk your argument (and which you have avoided) here is the actual biblical evidence:

From Mathew 2

2 "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."

10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceedingly great joy.
11 And when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him. And when they had opened their treasures, they presented gifts to Him: gold, frankincense, and myrrh.
12 Then, being divinely warned in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed for their own country another way.

- Satan cannot do anything without God's permission (Job)
- the magi stated their case to Herod truthfully that they had come to worship the king of the Jews.
- the star is called "His star" in the gospels. Jesus' star.
- the magi were filled with joy and worshiped Jesus.
- the gifts are prophetic speaking of Jesus kingship, priesthood and death
- they were divinely warned and they trusted and obeyed God.

These are hard Biblical facts. does your JW bible say anything different?

The problem you have Galveston is that you CANNOT disagree with what the JW corporation leadership tell you to believe irrespective of the scriptural evidence right in front of your eyes.

Originally posted by divegeester
Your argument is a moot point as satan can do nothing unless God permits it (job as a reference and precedent).

However, I still maintain that your view (actually not yours but the JW official position) is conjecture and assumption based on what the JW leadership assumes that the star was and what the magi motivation was.

However in addition ...[text shortened]... dership tell you to believe irrespective of the scriptural evidence right in front of your eyes.

"Your argument is a moot point as satan can do nothing unless God permits it (job as a reference and precedent). "


What? Are you for real? That completely explains why you have the views you do. Unbelieveable geester dude.

You really have no idea the implications of that statement at all do you?

I have to honestly say that is the most "out of touch" and no clue at all statement that I've ever seen posted here...ever. Wow!

Originally posted by galveston75
"Your argument is a moot point as satan can do nothing unless God permits it (job as a reference and precedent). "


What? Are you for real? That completely explains why you have the views you do. Unbelieveable geester dude.

You really have no idea the implications of that statement at all do you?

I have to honestly say that is the most "out of touch" and no clue at all statement that I've ever seen posted here...ever. Wow!

Ok leave that bit and we can come back to that in another thread.

What about the rest of the evidence and points in my post?

Originally posted by galveston75
"Your argument is a moot point as satan can do nothing unless God permits it (job as a reference and precedent). "


What? Are you for real? That completely explains why you have the views you do. Unbelieveable geester dude.

You really have no idea the implications of that statement at all do you?

I have to honestly say that is the most "out of touch" and no clue at all statement that I've ever seen posted here...ever. Wow!

When you use terms like "unbelievable", are you referring to the fact that I hold similar view to the vast majority of Christendom, or just that I disagree with you?

Originally posted by divegeester
When you use terms like "unbelievable", are you referring to the fact that I hold similar view to the vast majority of Christendom, or just that I disagree with you?

Numbers have never made something right...... God has never played the numbers game but who worships him with "spirit and truth" hence this is why only FEW will find life thru the narrow gate.
Now try again with a more conviencing arguement.

Originally posted by divegeester
Ok leave that bit and we can come back to that in another thread.

What about the rest of the evidence and points in my post?

You said it and I was only reacting to the most unbelieveable statement I've seen here at RHP.
I still am amazed at that and what it means and why I stated earlier I have no hope for helping you at this point. Not saying it can't happen and I hope it does, but OMG.

Originally posted by galveston75
You said it and I was only reacting to the most unbelieveable statement I've seen here at RHP.
I still am amazed at that and what it means and why I stated earlier I have no hope for helping you at this point. Not saying it can't happen and I hope it does, but OMG.

Happy to pick it up in another thread, seriously.

Are you going to address the other parts of my post or continue to hem and haw.

Originally posted by galveston75
You said it and I was only reacting to the most unbelieveable statement I've seen here at RHP.
I still am amazed at that and what it means and why I stated earlier I have no hope for helping you at this point. Not saying it can't happen and I hope it does, but OMG.

I've started a thread on it for you Galveston, so you can express you "unbelief" at my statement in there to your hearts content.

😉