Originally posted by FMFCan you not comprehend.....Vedanta presents absolute truth that has nothing to do with beliefs.....have you understood that.
These "others" are people who do not share your belief system and for who your assertions, based on the Vedic "authority" you chose to submit to, have no relevance or credibility. That's who these "others" are.
Causing animal cruelty is wrong, and it is 10 times more wrong for someone professing to be on some spiritual path, because a person on the spiritual path living a spiritual life, must know right from wrong.
If they profess to be living a spiritual life and are eating meat....then they are untruthful and a cheater.
If they want to eat meat and say it is not wrong, then let them become an atheist because it is typical for an atheist to slaughter animals and say ......oh well, we are all just chemicals and there is no soul and at death everyone cease to be.
But for someone professing to have higher spiritual awareness, and to eat meat and say it not wrong to cause suffering to animals, means their spirituality is fabricated and worthless.
Once again this is a never ending discussion ....because you have thrown truthfulness away and are defending error......and when you do this there can be no conclusion, so I am not continuing this until you can find some truthfulness within your heart.
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Originally posted by Dasayou cant tell people to become vegetarians. This is one where we lead by example. You've made your stance on this abundantly clear.
Who are these others.....do they live the spiritual life of purification and do they have any knowledge.
Or are they the atheists who say the cosmos just popped into existence without cause or meaning.
Or are they the followers of false religion who say animal cruelty is fine with their God.
Vedanta has the last word when it comes to spiritual knowledg ...[text shortened]... intend to find out for yourself.....you just whimsically reject in favour of your speculations.
I think the world would be better off if everyone was a vegetarian, but its not going to happen overnight, and some may never become vegetarians.
since you have made your point so often about this matter, let me reinterate mine, in the hope that you may see that it is possible to have a bonafide spiritual life AND eat meat.
So basically, it is the dissacociation from the meat, from the life that is being taken, that I have a problem with.
As a simple and direct example I would like to use the example of the indegenous aborigonals of Australia.
They were possibly the most "in tune" people with the way they went about feeding themselves, (in tune with the land, with nature, which is "god" ). They wasted nothing. They were connected to the meat they slaughtered. If I had to guess, I would say that they left the smallest carbon footprint of any society that has lived on this planet.
They would move about to find food and allow the plants they picked to re-grow as they went to other places to find food and then , maybe return to those other plants in a couple of years, when they were once again regenrated naturally. Can you see where I'm going with this?
But you must stop lecturing us on this topic. It is not working.
Some of us are herbivores,some are carnivores yet otheres ,such as I, are omnivoures.
The past lives of the people that currently reside on planet Earth are many and varied. This is why we are called the rainbow people. Thats why Hitler was never going to succeed. While genetically, we all come from the same mitocondrial ape-human "Eve", this is only the physical side of our evolution.
There are many here now with greatly varying views on life and who they are.
Some are from one part of the galaxy while others are from other parts.
Basically there is a diversity of "souls" on this planet that is unmatched by any other planet with similar conditions and similarly intelligent lifeforms.
Some people chould become vegetarians,(or just eat less meat) to get in touch with their spiritual sides. Some should stop wasting their jissom on emotionless, desperate sexual activities. Etc.
But I believe you have to treat these type of matters on a case by case basis.
No, I'm afraid I cant endorse vegetarianism the way you do.
You will have more success at answering questions about vegetarianism (and other stuff😉 ), when it comes up. Rather than just starting threads about vegetarianism, as if it was integral for ALL people to take up to have a bona fide spiritual life, you should take a more recptive/feminine approach to getting your point across. (You know what I mean? you wait for the "male" approach" and then answer in a non-derisive,non-controlling,non-preachy way).
I am sympathetic to your stance, but not to your approach.
Originally posted by karoly aczelkaroly ....I dont expect one person to become vegetarian.
you cant tell people to become vegetarians. This is one where we lead by example. You've made your stance on this abundantly clear.
I think the world would be better off if everyone was a vegetarian, but its not going to happen overnight, and some may never become vegetarians.
since you have made your point so often about this matter, let me rein ...[text shortened]... ng,non-preachy way.
I am sympathetic to your stance, but not to your approach.
But I do expect persons to be truthful and stop saying animal cruelty is NOT wrong.
Originally posted by DasaI have no reason to doubt that you are being sincere when you say you believe that I am "untruthful and a cheater". Why is condemning others such an important facet of your spirituality?
If they profess to be living a spiritual life and are eating meat....then they are untruthful and a cheater.
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Originally posted by DasaI oppose animal cruelty. I have said this many times. Had you forgotten? You have even said that you accept the fact that I oppose animal cruelty. Have you forgotten saying that?
karoly ....I dont expect one person to become vegetarian.
But I do expect persons to be truthful and stop saying animal cruelty is NOT wrong.
Originally posted by DasaIt's a pity that you believe my spirituality is "fabricated and worthless". However, it does not affect me - or my spirituality - in any significant way. Indeed, your behaviour and demeanour make it virtually impossible to learn anything useful from you and they make it less pleasurable sharing spiritual insights with you. Do you ever reflect on whether your approach to people is effective and whether it does your belief system justice?
But for someone professing to have higher spiritual awareness, and to eat meat and say it not wrong to cause suffering to animals, means their spirituality is fabricated and worthless.
Originally posted by FMFWhich shows that you agree there is a connection between you and your meal, right?
I oppose animal cruelty. I have said this many times. Had you forgotten? You have even said that you accept the fact that I oppose animal cruelty. Have you forgotten saying that?
Could I put you down as an example of someone, (for Dasa) , who is concious of the process of getting the animal to your plate?
It's just a simple idea, but it seems Dasa has a one-size-fits-all policy, like other fundies, and fails to see the diversity and contrast in differing spiritual opinions (regarding what we eat).
Originally posted by Dasaother than FMF's response , I would like to add that if we follow your rationale, (and you have posted many words on this topic), we could rightly conclude that you are telling people basically that they need to become vegetarian to be spiritual. Right?
karoly ....I dont expect one person to become vegetarian.
But I do expect persons to be truthful and stop saying animal cruelty is NOT wrong.
The "truth" is relative.
And my post had nothing about animal cruelty, directly anyway.
It's a most dissatisfying position to find myself in, finding myself leaning towards your scource material while agreeing with FMF about your need to find a better approach.
It's alright , though. I wont lose any sleep over it, hopefully. 🙂
Originally posted by FMFI guess real life examples carry more weight than words from a book, for example.
What makes you think I need you to "put [me] down as an example of" something for Dasa's sake?
Don't worry about it, man.
I was just trying to help Dasa's understanding.
I get the feeling he has assumed a lot about your lifestyle which is wrong.
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Originally posted by karoly aczelIf you think I have trouble expressing myself in writing, then just say so. Please don't ask me if you can cast me as an example of something just because you still want to ingratiate yourself with Dasa despite his ludicrous absolutism and abusive demeanour.
I was just trying to help Dasa's understanding.
I have already mentioned that I have been a vegetarian at certain times in my life for health and 'political' reasons - but not spiritual reasons. Dasa has nothing but contempt for this. If you want to take spiritual lessons from a guy who "spits at the thought of sex" with his wife and who believes eating meat and being spiritual are completely and utterly mutually exclusive, then fine.
But please don't factor in any problem you perceive in my erudition or ability to account for myself or my beliefs. If Dasa doesn't understand me, I can live with that. I can speak for myself.
Originally posted by karoly aczelI do not tell people to become vegetarian.
other than FMF's response , I would like to add that if we follow your rationale, (and you have posted many words on this topic), we could rightly conclude that you are telling people basically that they need to become vegetarian to be spiritual. Right?
The "truth" is relative.
And my post had nothing about animal cruelty, directly anyway.
It's a ...[text shortened]... d a better approach.
It's alright , though. I wont lose any sleep over it, hopefully. 🙂
I do say though, to live the spiritual life one must be vegetarian
But I have told persons who profess to be on the spiritual path,that meat eating for them is a great error, for when a person raises their consciousness by way of spiritual practice, they become aware and sensitive to animal welfare......it is a symptom of their advancement on their spiritual path.
If someone says they eat meat and they are not concerned for the suffering of the animals.....and they also say that they are living the spiritual way....then they are in illusion and are following some fabricated self made spirituality which is worthless.
I have people who are professing to spirituality and at the same time, not caring for animal welfare, and I am bringing to their attention their spirituality is then bogus.
People can cause suffering to animals as much as they want....but they cannot say they are living the spiritual life......if they do they are not truthful.
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Originally posted by FMFWhen a person advances on the path of spirituality, sex becomes unnecessary and distasteful because they are experiencing a much higher spiritual happiness.
If you think I have trouble expressing myself in writing, then just say so. Please don't ask me if you can cast me as an example of something just because you still want to ingratiate yourself with Dasa despite his ludicrous absolutism and abusive demeanour.
I have already mentioned that I have been a vegetarian at certain times in my life for health and 'po my beliefs. If Dasa doesn't understand me, I can live with that. I can speak for myself.
Persons who worship sex have not advanced spiritually, and are still under the control of their bodily senses which is a symptom of their conditioned materialistic life.
One cannot be attached to sex and at the same time be enlightened spiritually.
Your attitude of defending sexual activity, is showing your lack of commitment to the spiritual life and your ignorance of what abstinence is all about.
But why am I not surprised, because ever since you came to this forum, you have argued against spiritual principles and conduct in favour of your bogus self styled (what you think is spirituality)