08 Mar 11
Originally posted by DowardAh yes, the No True Scotsman, dusted off, wound up, wobbling around with a whirrrrr.
Also lets remember that people have [b]used religion as an excuse for war, but rarely has the real reason been religous. Your's is a rediculous argument at best, and one that often ignorantly repeated by people with a bias against religion.[/b]
08 Mar 11
Originally posted by FMFIt's an inconvenient truth that non-"religionists" hate to admit. People have used the name of religion to kill, but with no real religous inclination. Bosnia for example was less about religion and more about ethnicity, but lets not talk facts right?
Ah yes, the No True Scotsman, dusted off, wound up, wobbling around with a whirrrrr.
08 Mar 11
2 edits
Originally posted by Doward“...your nonsense aside, they were both avowed atheists ...”
your nonsense aside, they were both avowed atheists. Atheism is responsible for far more deaths than sincere religous wars.
Also lets remember that people have [b]used religion as an excuse for war, but rarely has the real reason been religous. Your's is a rediculous argument at best, and one that often ignorantly repeated by people with a bias against religion.[/b]
show us the evidence for this?
And even if this was true, atheism would not be the cause of their evil because atheism is the absence of a belief.
“...Atheism is responsible for far more deaths than sincere religous wars. ...”
atheism has never been responsible for deaths in wars. The mere disbelief in a supernatural deity has never caused anyone to go an a murderous rampage. Religious extremism has.
“...Also lets remember that people have used religion as an excuse for war, but rarely has the real reason been religious. ...”
if somebody used religion as an excuse for war then is that not a 'religious' excuse?
has anyone ever said they are going to war because of their own atheism? I mean, Has anyone declared their atheism as an excuse for war? -answer, no.
08 Mar 11
Originally posted by FMFNo of course not, but I cannot speak for lesser mortals like Buddhists, Muslims , Hindus and nominal Christians.
Do you seriously believe that if the state you lived in "went so far as to officially ban the practice of every religion" that this would "impose" atheism on you, robbie, cause you to stop being a Christian, and make you be an atheist?
08 Mar 11
1 edit
Albigensian Crusade, 1208-49
Algeria, 1992-
Baha'is, 1848-54
Bosnia, 1992-95
Boxer Rebellion, 1899-1901
Christian Romans, 30-313 CE
Croatia, 1991-92
English Civil War, 1642-46
Holocaust, 1938-45
Huguenot Wars, 1562-1598
India, 1992-2002
India: Suttee & Thugs
Indo-Pakistani Partition, 1947
Iran, Islamic Republic, 1979-
Iraq, Shiites, 1991-92
Jews, 1348
Jonestown, 1978
Lebanon 1860 / 1975-92
Molucca Is., 1999-
Mongolia, 1937-39
Northern Ireland, 1974-98
Russian pogroms 1905-06 / 1917-22
St. Bartholemew Massacre, 1572
Shang China, ca. 1300-1050 BCE
Shimabara Revolt, Japan 1637-38
Sikh uprising, India, 1984-91
Spanish Inquisition, 1478-1834
Taiping Rebellion, 1850-64
Thirty Years War, 1618-48
Tudor England
Vietnam, 1800s
Witch Hunts, 1400-1800
Xhosa, 1857
Arab Outbreak, 7th Century CE
Arab-Israeli Wars, 1948-
Al Qaeda, 1993-
Crusades, 1095-1291
Dutch Revolt, 1566-1609
Nigeria, 1990s, 2000s
lets just pick a few of these shall we?
Vietnam: war against communism--economics not religion
Arab-Israeli war: ethnicity and land. Jews have lived in that region peacefully beside muslims since Islam began
Russian pogroms: the 1906 one was incited by the Tsar himself, it was politcal and meant to galvinize the people against a common "foe" The 1917 one was about communism etc. In either case it was secular
Holocaust: Was about ethnicity. Many gypsies , croats etc were executed as well. It was state sponsered and obviously not about religion
shall I go on? or are you man enough to concede that your argument was bull$hite?
08 Mar 11
1 edit
Originally posted by DowardWhy dont you ask him about the Fuhrers use of Darwinian principles on a social level or how many Buddhist monks were killed during the Khmer Rouges attempt to set up an Atheist state?
Albigensian Crusade, 1208-49
Algeria, 1992-
Baha'is, 1848-54
Bosnia, 1992-95
Boxer Rebellion, 1899-1901
Christian Romans, 30-313 CE
Croatia, 1991-92
English Civil War, 1642-46
Holocaust, 1938-45
Huguenot Wars, 1562-1598
India, 1992-2002
India: Suttee & Thugs
Indo-Pakistani Partition, 1947
Iran, Islamic Republic, 1979-
Iraq, Shiites religion
shall I go on? or are you man enough to concede that your argument was bull$hite?
08 Mar 11
Originally posted by karoly aczelGood point....
how is killing an animal in a humane way keeping someone ignorant of their spiritual identity?
I would've thought that the ones, who just get their meat daily served to them and give no thought to how it got to their plates ,would be more ignorant of their spiritual identities than the ones who gave consideration to the animal they are eating and decide to kill it in a humane way?
Having consideration for the suffering of animals is shared by many persons and we find in this world animal shelters run by thoughtful volunteers, cat women who have 100 stray cats in their home because they are homeless, vegetarians who are vegetarians because of animal welfare, persons who only buy free range chickens and eggs, persons who do not purchase animal products and so on............and 90% of these people know nothing of the eternal soul, or reincarnation, or the transcendental nature of God, but they care for animals because they are sensitive about the issue of animal welfare.
All these persons are ignorant of their very own spiritual natures and know nothing of the true process for returning home back to Godhead.......so they will return to this world and take re-birth, along with the other 6.5 billion persons who will pass from this world.
That leaves about 10% who are somewhat aware of the spiritual values and its connection to animal welfare. (these percentages may be inaccurate)
08 Mar 11
5 edits
Originally posted by DowardYou are missing the point of my thread -I am NOT saying religion is the cause of war, evil etc.
Albigensian Crusade, 1208-49
Algeria, 1992-
Baha'is, 1848-54
Bosnia, 1992-95
Boxer Rebellion, 1899-1901
Christian Romans, 30-313 CE
Croatia, 1991-92
English Civil War, 1642-46
Holocaust, 1938-45
Huguenot Wars, 1562-1598
India, 1992-2002
India: Suttee & Thugs
Indo-Pakistani Partition, 1947
Iran, Islamic Republic, 1979-
Iraq, Shiites religion
shall I go on? or are you man enough to concede that your argument was bull$hite?
What I am trying to get through is the hypocrisy from a certain minority of theists on these forums that claim atheism is the cause of all war and evil etc.
Religion was still verbally used as an excuse for war -whether religion was the “real” motive is an entirely different matter but that does not diminish the fact that this means it is just pure hypocrisy from a certain minority of theists to claim that atheists and atheism are the cause of all the evil and warfare in the world simply because some brutal murderous dictators may have been atheist (although I have seen astonishingly little evidence that any of them were atheist!) . So the point I am making is: “well, if that is true, then using that SAME flawed logic, religion must be the cause of all evil and warfare 'because' ('because', using the same flawed logic) many of those murderers where theist as demonstrated by the fact that they verbally used religion as the excuse”
“...shall I go on? or are you man enough to concede that your argument was bull$hite? ...”
but that was not my “argument”; that was my “demonstration” of the absurdity of their logic by showing what we would conclude if we used the SAME flawed logic. If you don't agree with that conclusion that religion is the cause of all evil and war, GOOD! Because I agree! Because that is PRECISELY the point I am making by using the same flawed logic as they do! I only used that same flawed logic of theirs to demonstrate the absurdity of there claim that atheism is the cause of all evil 'because' (using the SAME logic) some evil people may (we don't even know for sure) have been atheist!
08 Mar 11
1 edit
Originally posted by DasaYour a fraud!
Good point....
Having consideration for the suffering of animals is shared by many persons and we find in this world animal shelters run by thoughtful volunteers, cat women who have 100 stray cats in their home because they are homeless, vegetarians who are vegetarians because of animal welfare, persons who only buy free range chickens and eggs, persons who ...[text shortened]... he spiritual values and its connection to animal welfare. (these percentages may be inaccurate)
Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian, in fact he passed laws to stop animal cruelty. He even wanted a way for lobsters to be killed rather than having them being boiled alive. Their sound at the point of death disturbed him, yet he had no qualms about killing people, interesting that his love of animals and his vegetarianism didn't lead him to the correct path.
Your still a fraud!
08 Mar 11
Originally posted by FMFYou keep sensationalizing my statements of truth by say they are abusive..........but there is nothing abusive about what I present, and you say it is abusive to score victim points.
I am against animal cruelty. So I oppose causing unnecessary suffering. I approve of slaughtering animals, of course, because they are a source of food for humans. How can stating my belief in this concise, straightforward way be "insincere". Can you not handle disagreement without hurling an insult? Are you unable to post without being abusive?
I want you to admit that animal cruelty is wrong and stop dancing around it.
Can you make this statement ...."causing animals to suffer, is wrong"
Will you post that up....can you do it?
08 Mar 11
Originally posted by DasaI oppose animal cruelty. Dancing around it? I have said it umpteen times already and at least three times on this thread. Make that four. I oppose animal cruelty. Five. I oppose animal cruelty. Six. No "dancing" involved.
I want you to admit that animal cruelty is wrong and stop dancing around it.
08 Mar 11
Originally posted by FMFYou are once again twisting words, to make what I say seem different to what I am actually saying.....dont do it.
Spiritual people don't eat meat? This assertion is clearly incorrect. There are thousands of millions of people who eat meat and yet are on their diverse spiritual paths. Your claims about "transcendental platforms" and "different consciousnesses" with regard to eating meat or being a vegetarian are only credible or relevant to people who happen to subscribe to the same [or a similar] religionist doctrine as you do.
When I say spiritual people I am talking about true spiritual persons who follow the authorized and bonafide process of spiritual living.....I am not talking about persons who profess to false religion or false spirituality which teach much error.
Just like you, who profess to live a spiritual life and have invented you own FMF styled spirituality which includes slaughtering animals......there are millions of persons just like you, who are inventing their own spiritual values, which in turn protects their vices.
08 Mar 11
Originally posted by FMFYou are once again twisting words, to make what I say seem different to what I am actually saying.....dont do it.
Spiritual people don't eat meat? This assertion is clearly incorrect. There are thousands of millions of people who eat meat and yet are on their diverse spiritual paths. Your claims about "transcendental platforms" and "different consciousnesses" with regard to eating meat or being a vegetarian are only credible or relevant to people who happen to subscribe to the same [or a similar] religionist doctrine as you do.
When I say spiritual people I am talking about true spiritual persons who follow the authorized and bonafide process of spiritual living.....I am not talking about persons who profess to false religion or false spirituality which teach much error.
Just like you, who profess to live a spiritual life and have invented you own FMF styled spirituality which includes slaughtering animals......there are millions of persons just like you, who are inventing their own spiritual values, which in turn protects their vices.
08 Mar 11
Originally posted by FMFYou are once again twisting words, to make what I say seem different to what I am actually saying.....dont do it.
Spiritual people don't eat meat? This assertion is clearly incorrect. There are thousands of millions of people who eat meat and yet are on their diverse spiritual paths. Your claims about "transcendental platforms" and "different consciousnesses" with regard to eating meat or being a vegetarian are only credible or relevant to people who happen to subscribe to the same [or a similar] religionist doctrine as you do.
When I say spiritual people I am talking about true spiritual persons who follow the authorized and bonafide process of spiritual living.....I am not talking about persons who profess to false religion or false spirituality which teach much error.
Just like you, who profess to live a spiritual life and have invented you own FMF styled spirituality which includes slaughtering animals......there are millions of persons just like you, who are inventing their own spiritual values, which in turn protects their vices.