@ghost-of-a-duke saidYou are dragging God through this so I am interested!
So no retraction on your false assumption about my unstated beliefs?
Again, if the OP is of no interest to you, don't feel obliged to address it.
@kellyjay saidApology accepted, if it comes with cake.
No I absolutely apologize to you if I said ANYTHING false or even hinted at it! It would be my error not you!
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidCarrot okay, or my favorite that I can only eat a little at a time, butter pecan cake? Which we can eat at the table in our kitchen overlooking the pond behind the house that people call a lake. 🙂 With coffee, lots of coffee, made in a French press with dark roast coffee beans freshly ground over ice, or hot? While playing chess without a clock?
Apology accepted, if it comes with cake.
@kellyjay saidWhat about when you were repeatedly calling a liar about my Christian past, something you obviously did to deflect after backing yourself down a discursive cul-de-sac of your own making?
No I absolutely apologize to you if I said ANYTHING false or even hinted at it! It would be my error not you!
@ghost-of-a-duke saidIt is the same God, but the relationship changed.
If you are conceding that the God in the OT is a different God, then cool. If not, my point still stands.
I think we can both agree that the addition of Christ is a far better one.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidHow can you make such claims without discussion on the causes?
God is the weakness. Why? Because he doesn't exist.
A stable and moral person will entertain, if a Christian, the horrors of the OT and assimilate into their moral framework, allowing their morality to be degraded by a fictional deity.
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A well adjusted and moral human being will abhor genocide wherever or whenever it occurs. However, if this same well adjusted and moral human being believes in a God who has sanctioned such a genocide, they will accept it as a necessity. (As it derived from an infallible deity).
Human's are stronger without a God who can override their own sense of right and wrong.
If I understand "genocide" it is a killing off of a particular ethnic culture because of who they are.
Ie. "Rid the country of Jews." Or
"Kill all the Hutus." or
"Kill all the the Armenians."
In the Old Testament it was what the cultures DID which caused God to send in a judgment of death against them. But the very SAME warnings were given to His own chosen people Israel.
In fact MORE of the Old Testament is about God's punishment of Israel for being LIKE those Canaanite cultures such that no favorites were indicated. As He judged the ethnic cultures of Canaan in the conquest of Joshua He ALSO chastized Israel when they disobeyed to imitate those nations.
The question to you then is, does this prove "genocide" from God in the Old Testament? Or does it prove that it was not WHO they were that was the main factor of judgment, but WHAT THEY DID?
@whodey saidYes, yes, relationships change, but God himself doesn't. The NT doesn't negate the OT and the horrors it contains.
It is the same God, but the relationship changed.
I think we can both agree that the addition of Christ is a far better one.
Yes, yes, relationships change, but God himself doesn't. The NT doesn't negate the OT and the horrors it contains.
It would make no sense for the Gospel of Luke to immediately follow Genesis.
The divine hatred for sin had to be established and seen before it would make sense that all this hatred He caused to come down in judgment on His Son, on behalf of the whole world for all history.
The Old Testament was called rightly "the ministry of condemnation". Eventually all divine condemnation was carried by Jesus the Son of God on Calvary.
He died for you and I.
He bore under the wrath of God in your place - in my place.
Would it make any sense to the world is the hatred of the righteous God for unrighteousness were not first manifested ?
Jesus referred to His Father as "Righteous Father" .
Locate one word of Jesus condemning the Father for wrong doing in the Old Testament.
@sonship saidNo one 'with God' has done that either.
Is there an Atheist or someone WITHOUT GOD who rose from the dead ?
Death is really strong. How come only a totally dependent Son of God defeated it by the sheer power of an indestructible life?
@sonship saidYou realize that statement validates my point right?
Locate one word of Jesus condemning the Father for wrong doing in the Old Testament.
@sonship saidAgain, you validate my point about a Christian going to extraordinary lengths to justify genocide, something he probably wouldn't do without God.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
[quote] A well adjusted and moral human being will abhor genocide wherever or whenever it occurs. However, if this same well adjusted and moral human being believes in a God who has sanctioned such a genocide, they will accept it as a necessity. (As it derived from an infallible deity).
Human's are stronger without a God who can override their own sens ...[text shortened]... does it prove that it was not WHO they were that was the main factor of judgment, but WHAT THEY DID?
@kellyjay saidGod has you seek justifiable causes for the unjustifiable.
How can you make such claims without discussion on the causes?
They were wicked people. They were debauched. God was justified in annihilating them,....and their animals.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThe context
God has you seek justifiable causes for the unjustifiable.
They were wicked people. They were debauched. God was justified in annihilating them,....and their animals.