Originally posted by @fmfDon't be obtuse.
Does it "distort Christianity" when self-professed Christians declare themselves already "saved", right now, come what way, and that not even God can undo it without making Himself a liar etc. etc.? Does sonship's 'eternal torture-non-believers hung out burning on chains as a warning to people of "other worlds"' theology "distort Christianity"?
Everybody knows that saying oneself is saved is a big part of many evangelical circles.
You now suddenly have like some Catholic "work in progress" theological perspective because you want to pretend that Romans is being controversial.
That is a B. S. line of argumentation and you aren't allowed to cash checks from an account you never paid into, fellah.
Originally posted by @philokaliaI am not being obtuse at all. Do you believe that Christians declaring themselves already "saved", right now, come what way, regardless of what they do and how they behave, and that not even God Himself can undo this "salvation" without making Himself a liar ~ do you think that "distorts" Christianity? If not, as a Christian, do you declare to be already "saved" in that way?
Don't be obtuse. Everybody knows that saying oneself is saved is a big part of many evangelical circles.
Originally posted by @philokaliaAre you ~ and is he ~ already "saved" and already certain of being rewarded with "everlasting life" in a way that not even your God Himself can revoke or undo?
You now suddenly have like some Catholic "work in progress" theological perspective because you want to pretend that Romans is being controversial.
Originally posted by @fmfYou think eternal security, also known as “once saved, always saved,” distorts Christianity? Are you aware of the Biblical support for it? Are you aware how prominent a tenet it is in Christianity?
I am not being obtuse at all. Do you believe that Christians declaring themselves already "saved", right now, come what way, regardless of what they do and how they behave, and that not even God Himself can undo this "salvation" without making Himself a liar ~ do you think that "distorts" Christianity? If not, as a Christian, do you declare to be already "saved" in that way?
I’m not saying eternal security is undisputed among Christians but to say it distorts Christianity implies there’s no Biblical support for it and few people believe in it.
Knowing you as I do, I suspect you’re now trying to pit Christians against each other by doctrine, rather than by personality, since I suspect Philo, being Catholic, does not believe in salvation by faith alone and eternal security.
Why not start a thread on OSAS and salvation by faith alone and see if you have any takers?
Originally posted by @fmfYes, it definitely appears you’re now trying to pit Christians against each other by doctrine. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be personalizing it the way you are.
Are you ~ and is he ~ already "saved" and already certain of being rewarded with "everlasting life" in a way that not even your God Himself can revoke or undo?
Oh, Kiddo. Do your antics never cease? You’re getting as bad as tiger with your hijinks.
Originally posted by @fmfMaybe you are honestly just ignorant, then
I am not being obtuse at all. Do you believe that Christians declaring themselves already "saved", right now, come what way, regardless of what they do and how they behave, and that not even God Himself can undo this "salvation" without making Himself a liar ~ do you think that "distorts" Christianity? If not, as a Christian, do you declare to be already "saved" in that way?
There is an entire trope of "How I was saved" in American protestantism.
"I was saved back in XXXX,"
"I became saved when,"""
"Before I was saved,"
Etc.
It is not meant to literally dispel the danger of hell but meant to testify to their complete faith in Christ, and back up the concept of 'sola fide.'
Do you get it?
Or is this just boring to you because it will end your Lucy Obtusey game with Romans?
Originally posted by @fmf<<I am not being obtuse at all.>>
I am not being obtuse at all. Do you believe that Christians declaring themselves already "saved", right now, come what way, regardless of what they do and how they behave, and that not even God Himself can undo this "salvation" without making Himself a liar ~ do you think that "distorts" Christianity? If not, as a Christian, do you declare to be already "saved" in that way?
You’re being Lucy Obtusey. Philo says so.
Originally posted by @philokaliaSo does it "distort Christianity" for someone to claim that even God Himself cannot undo the "salvation" of a Christian who has declared himself or herself "saved"?
Maybe you are honestly just ignorant, then
There is an entire trope of "How I was saved" in American protestantism.
"I was saved back in XXXX,"
"I became saved when,"""
"Before I was saved,"
Etc.
It is not meant to literally dispel the danger of hell but meant to testify to their complete faith in Christ, and back up the concept of 'sola fide.'
Do you get it?
Originally posted by @fmfPeople aren’t saved because they declare themselves saved. They’re saved because they believe in Jesus Christ and His Resurrection and have decided to put their faith and trust in Him.
So does it "distort Christianity" for someone to claim that even God Himself cannot undo the "salvation" of a Christian who has declared himself or herself "saved"?
You’ve been told that several times and the fact you continue to ignore how someone is saved is an indication that you’re either trolling or were never saved (i.e. never a Christian) or both.
Originally posted by @tom-wolsey to Rajk999I don't get why you asked him out of the blue "Why don't you run off to a homosexual dating site or something?"
I said, speaking of God visiting punishment upon others--especially when speaking to those who would potentially be on the receiving end of it--is not something I would say proudly.
What was that all about?
Just online disinhibition on your part?
Originally posted by @fmfAw yes, the famous John 22 question where God says "I will occasionally & personally undo and overturn the salvation of Christians who have legitimate belief in Christ and have declared as much. Because, I want to prove that I can undo salvation."
So does it "distort Christianity" for someone to claim that even God Himself cannot undo the "salvation" of a Christian who has declared himself or herself "saved"?
Gee, man, I just don't know...
:eyeroll:
Do you have some real discussion point here?
Originally posted by @philokaliaYes. Feel free to engage ~ although there is no onus on you to do so if you can't be bothered.
Do you have some real discussion point here?
Originally posted by @fmfIs this the kind of post the SF’s “Main Poster” should be making? Come on, Kiddo. What does your query have to do with spirituality?
I don't get why you asked him out of the blue "Why don't you run off to a homosexual dating site or something?"
What was that all about?
Just online disinhibition on your part?
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Originally posted by @philokaliaYour facetiousness is not going to disguise the fact that you are sidestepping the issue.
Aw yes, the famous John 22 question where God says "I will occasionally & personally undo and overturn the salvation of Christians who have legitimate belief in Christ and have declared as much. Because, I want to prove that I can undo salvation."
You have said a few times here that you think it's really hard work being a Christian [and that atheists have it easy]. How do you square your assertion that it's really hard work being a Christian with the kind of OSAS theology I have been asking about, especially when it is in harness with the idea that a Christian doesn't have to make any effort to obey the commandments of Christ and that any obedience and/or good works which may or may not be engaged in will be down to the "indwelt Holy Spirit" and not the Christian themselves, and oh yes "sins" will be forgiven, and one's "salvation" is irrevocable etc. etc.
How do you square your assertion that it's really hard work being a Christian with such a wishy-washy philosophy of how to live one's life?