Taking the good

@kellyjay said
A moral failing is an interesting term, you think that is possible?

Of course. What a fatuous question! Have you not been reading any of my posts?

@fmf said
Of course. What a fatuous question! Have you not been reading any of my posts?

Yes, nothing about anything you said seems to indicate morals are nothing more
than what we want at the time.

@kellyjay said
I am not interested in discussing DeSantis

Who knows, perhaps you have ghastly political beliefs that you self-sanctify by babbling on about Jesus in some tawdry, misanthropic and narcissistic way? Maybe that's why you are keeping schtum.

@kellyjay said
Yes, nothing about anything you said seems to indicate morals are nothing more
than what we want at the time.

Then either you are deliberately, deceitfully pretending not to have read or understood anything I have said on the subject in recent days, this year, and stretching back a decade or more, or ~ not to put too fine a point on it ~ you are just as thick as two planks, KellyJay. It's one or the other. I opt for the first of those two possibilities.

@fmf said
Who knows, perhaps you have ghastly political beliefs that you self-sanctify by babbling on about Jesus in some tawdry, misanthropic and narcissistic way? Maybe that's why you are keeping schtum.

Or I just don't care to discuss someone you want.

@kellyjay said
Or I just don't care to discuss someone you want.

I sense that you don't care to discuss what was done to those human beings because you have political beliefs that would make your stance on morality and a "fixed point" and a "true north" seem like a crock.

@fmf said
Then either you are deliberately, deceitfully pretending not to have read or understood anything I have said on the subject in recent days, this year, and stretching back a decade or more, or ~ not to put too fine a point on it ~ you are just as thick as two planks, KellyJay. It's one or the other. I opt for the first of those two possibilities.

It is simply that if there is nothing you can say this is why this is evil or good it is
only what you feel you have nothing but feelings to go on. A common consensus
isn't anything to go on, mob rule can have a common consensus, it doesn't touch
why it is better only that there is an agreement to do whatever, or there is a herd
mentality at play which can have another different group of people equal or more
or less with numbers having an opposite view in consensus.

With God, there is a value system at work that goes beyond our ability to turn on
or off, each human is made in the image of God and therefore with unsurpassed
worth and value, touching one of them in ways that are harmful is evil, not doing
what needs done for them is evil, doing them well, helping them is good, and the
only One who made us all is also good because He is the source of all that is good,
and you have brought no reason to accept anything as worthy of goodness only
what you think, and who are you?

@kellyjay said
It is simply that if there is nothing you can say this is why this is evil or good it is
only what you feel you have nothing but feelings to go on.

A common consensus isn't anything to go on, mob rule can have a common consensus, it doesn't touch why it is better only that there is an agreement to do whatever, or there is a herd mentality at play which can have another different group of people equal or more or less with numbers having an opposite view in consensus. With God, there is a value system at work that goes beyond our ability to turn on or off, each human is made in the image of God and therefore with unsurpassed worth and value, touching one of them in ways that are harmful is evil, not doing what needs done for them is evil, doing them well, helping them is good, and the only One who made us all is also good because He is the source of all that is good, and you have brought no reason to accept anything as worthy of goodness only what you think, and who are you?

If this is aimed at me, and not just you posting for posting's sake, then it shows no sign whatsoever that you have read or understood anything I have said in any of our dozens of discussions on this matter.

@kellyjay said
With God, there is a value system at work

If your belief in your God helps you to evaluate "competing views with consensus on every side", then that is fine.

That is you employing your moral compass, in the way you're supposed to.

I also use my moral compass to perceive and evaluate "competing claims" too.

@fmf said
[b]A common consensus isn't anything to go on, mob rule can have a common consensus, it doesn't touch why it is better only that there is an agreement to do whatever, or there is a herd mentality at play which can have another different group of people equal or more or less with numbers having an opposite view in consensus. With God, there is a value system at work that goes beyo ...[text shortened]... you have read or understood anything I have said in any of our dozens of discussions on this matter.

I was talking to you, pay attention.
I'm telling you my take on what you have been saying if it isn't what you mean please
feel free to correct me. I will not call you names or belittle you in any way as you do
for expressing yourself as you have.

@fmf said
If your belief in your God helps you to evaluate "competing views with consensus on every side", then that is fine.

That is you employing your moral compass, in the way you're supposed to.

I also use my moral compass to perceive and evaluate "competing claims" too.

Yes, you do which is what I have been saying, you and everyone else so there is
no good and evil without God only the views of billions of people all pointing to
some direction one way or another.

@kellyjay said
I will not call you names or belittle you in any way as you do
for expressing yourself as you have.

You constantly present strawman encapsulations of what I bring to the discussion. And then you attack them instead of engaging what I am actually saying. You seem incapable of conversing in good faith and this has become acutely obvious, increasingly so, this year.

@fmf said
You constantly present strawman encapsulations of what I bring to the discussion. And then you attack them instead of engaging what I am actually saying. You seem incapable of conversing in good faith and this has become acutely obvious, increasingly so, this year.

Yes, my fault, you and your moral compass only recognizes your side of the discussion.

@kellyjay said
Yes, you do which is what I have been saying, you and everyone else so there is
no good and evil without God only the views of billions of people all pointing to
some direction one way or another.

Morality is a human construct. It governs human interactions. If you refer to the God figure you worship, and if your conscience would not otherwise be able to perceive evil, then so be it.

Your reliance on religious texts is part of the "nurture" element, i.e. stimulus and learning and experience and a lifetime of interaction.

Perhaps the "nature" element of your personhood would be unable to function as a morally sound member of society without your reliance on religious texts and a God figure; if that is the case, so be it.

For my part, not being an adherent of your religion, I find your insistence that [for example] "calling someone a fool" is "evil" ~ and deserving of a brutal non-stop punishment lasting for infinity after death ~ to be a religious texts-based philosophical and moral stance that makes you sound very silly.

@kellyjay said
Yes, my fault, you and your moral compass only recognizes your side of the discussion.

What makes you claim I don't "recognize your side of the discussion"? Another strawman. My engagement with your beliefs is all there in post after post, page after page, thread after thread, year after year. My approach to our conversations is a far cry from your constant resort to informal fallacies.