Teaching Creationism is a crime.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
you view god only in terms of "what have you done for me lately, God?"


and of course, many theists view him like that. they pray to god for stuff. they thank god for the good stuff. they complain to god for the bad.
"God, gimme!!".


i view god as a father figure. he watches, get sad when you fail, happy when you succeed, but doesn't intervene. i ...[text shortened]... e allows you to manage it yourself. after you die, you demonstrate how his investment payed off.

Good luck with that theory. I think it is just that you have an invisible friend you can bounce emotions off and you view the responses yourself as if someone else talked to you. I think all that is just in your head which is fine except there won't be the big reward, no 73 virgins, just one less reasonable person on the planet after you kick off.

The 'doesn't intervene' part is what gets me. I think any kind of empathic god would show visible outrage if a million people got killed through war or pogroms and this so-called god of yours has said nothing for 2000 years and I fully expect the same for the next 20,000 years at which point we may have offed ourselves totally, 100% of the human race history, melted into dust and still no response from your non-intervening god.

I could care less if this god does anything for me personally, I am handling my own life quite well for a 72 yo with full time employment making about 75K a year.

The kind of intervention I would expect from some kind of god is to protect the planet, something this god is not even starting to do.

Did you know we are in the middle of the 6th extinction? The last one, either 33 million or 65 million years ago, not sure which, but about 80% of all creatures died off for various reasons and we are doing the same.

I would would think a god would not put up with that planetary wide abuse.

Originally posted by Pianoman1
The point is, Kelly, they are not teaching beliefs (although even that is distasteful to me), they are teaching LIES. Creationism isn't a belief - it's a delusionary lie. IT SIMPLY IS NOT TRUE!! There is no room for opinion or belief when something is untrue. And to teach untruths to children is abhorrent to me. (I have taught 4 - 13 year olds for some 30 ...[text shortened]... cram whatever beliefs you want to, but they have to be taught to think independently and freely)

If you do not how or why it started simply saying Creationism is a lie is a bit
presumptuous on your part. For all you know God did do it, you don't know
how or why so ruling anything out is beyond your abilities if your honest
about it.

Its amazing for someone who claims they want children to be able to think
freely, that freely only means that if they agree with how you view the
universe and everything in it.
Kelly

Originally posted by Pianoman1
Being British I know nothing of your Obamacare.
Kelly Jay, I am not talking about opinion. You may care to believe the moon is made of cheese, but it has been proved not to be the case. Likewise, you may care to believe the universe was created in 6 days some 10,000 years ago, but it has been proved otherwise. It's not my opinion, it is science. Sorry to ...[text shortened]... tural selection. You may believe otherwise, but you do not have the science to prove your point.

You don't have to know about Obamacare, the point was that pushing
something that was not true was the point. If you share something that is
not true even if you believe it, it would be no different than the crime you
are suggesting takes place with Creationism.

Science cannot find God, even if evidence for God was looking it right in the
eye it'd miss it, there will always be an excuse to avoid God.

Science is like building your house on sand, every time you turn around
something new comes along that shows you some new way to look at
everything you'll have to alter your opinions.

Would you call it a crime to push some view that comes from science if it
becomes known later it was in error, would that mean every time that a
view was taught that was a crime?
Kelly

Originally posted by Penguin
[b]For you to suggest that anyone who teaches their beliefs to their kids is a crime is very nasty to me. Matters of faith, are just that faith, if they could be proven it wouldn't be faith now would it?

But given that they are 'just faith', to teach one particular religion as true in public schools should not be allowed. That is the po ...[text shortened]... f the religious beliefs, Young Earth Creationism, that some schools are pushing).

--- Penguin[/b]

Each person is going to push what they believe is true as true, if you want
to cover what the major belief systems think about any topic in the public
schools fine by me.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
You don't have to know about Obamacare, the point was that pushing
something that was not true was the point. If you share something that is
not true even if you believe it, it would be no different than the crime you
are suggesting takes place with Creationism.

Science cannot find God, even if evidence for God was looking it right in the
eye it'd mi ...[text shortened]... ter it was in error, would that mean every time that a
view was taught that was a crime?
Kelly

Science might not be able to find God, which would make sense if there is no God. But we are able to claim how old the earth is, how long humanity has been on this planet, how the diversification of life came to be, whether the Biblical flood story is true or not, whether or not humans lived with dinosaurs and all the other wacky YEC beliefs.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Science might not be able to find God, which would make sense if there is no God. But we are able to claim how old the earth is, how long humanity has been on this planet, how the diversification of life came to be, whether the Biblical flood story is true or not, whether or not humans lived with dinosaurs and all the other wacky YEC beliefs.

I believe you completely, science is forced to miss God so it will view all
things in that light and ignore anything that could lead you to see God in
the universe, and not only ignore it, but fight against it.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I believe you completely, science is forced to miss God so it will view all
things in that light and ignore anything that could lead you to see God in
the universe, and not only ignore it, but fight against it.
Kelly

How exactly is 'science' forced to miss God? Who's fighting against what?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
How exactly is 'science' forced to miss God? Who's fighting against what?

Nothing can be brought before you or anyone who uses science that can
used to see God's finger print in the universe, even if the whole universe
shows it. There will always be an excuse, another way it could be, might
have, or whatever that ignores God. If someone dares to say this is a
piece of evidence for God, all the excuses will be thrown at it and those
that dared to make the claim will be belittled.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Nothing can be brought before you or anyone who uses science that can
used to see God's finger print in the universe, even if the whole universe
shows it. There will always be an excuse, another way it could be, might
have, or whatever that ignores God. If someone dares to say this is a
piece of evidence for God, all the excuses will be thrown at it and those
that dared to make the claim will be belittled.
Kelly

If someone has a piece of evidence for God then they should submit it through the proper scientific channels, that is how science works. It would surely depend on what this piece of evidence is. I mean most peoples evidence for God that I have seen in this forum is merely built on ignorance of the natural world. It's just God of the Gaps in various different forms.

Here's a question for you, how come science has got it so badly wrong in your eyes? With respect to evolution, the age of the earth, the flood, dinosaurs etc etc. How can we have got so much right, yet so much completely wrong? What do you put that down to?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Science might not be able to find God, which would make sense if there is no God. But we are able to claim how old the earth is, how long humanity has been on this planet, how the diversification of life came to be, whether the Biblical flood story is true or not, whether or not humans lived with dinosaurs and all the other wacky YEC beliefs.

But we are able to claim how old the earth is, how long humanity has been on this planet, how the diversification of life came to be, whether the Biblical flood story is true or not, whether or not humans lived with dinosaurs and all ...

Maybe maybe not. You don't know anything for sure..

Originally posted by checkbaiter

But we are able to claim how old the earth is, how long humanity has been on this planet, how the diversification of life came to be, whether the Biblical flood story is true or not, whether or not humans lived with dinosaurs and all ...

Maybe maybe not. You don't know anything for sure..

As far as scientific evidence goes, they're a slam dunk.

Originally posted by Pianoman1
To teach young children today that the world is less than 10,000 years old amounts to the most awful abuse. To warp young minds with the staggeringly ignorant dictum that faith is more important than evidence is more harmful than sexual abuse. To deny the youth of today access to scientific empiricism because it doesn't corroborate a fable written by a wan ...[text shortened]... love of knowledge. I believe the teaching of Creationism in schools to be a very serious crime.

Anything can be considered a crime if you really think about it. They have stupid laws. Did you know that in some cities it is illegal to pee outside in public unless you pee into a cup, lol.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
If someone has a piece of evidence for God then they should submit it through the proper scientific channels, that is how science works. It would surely depend on what this piece of evidence is. I mean most peoples evidence for God that I have seen in this forum is merely built on ignorance of the natural world. It's just God of the Gaps in various diffe ...[text shortened]... . How can we have got so much right, yet so much completely wrong? What do you put that down to?

People tend to see what they want, be it the best in those they like and
agree with, or worse in those they dislike and disagree with, or whatever it
is that proves their point. Science when it comes to things that cannot be
proven wrong, well the human bias is always going to be look at things in
the light that shows their own views as acceptable, and those that disagree
as unacceptable, and since it is people who are working science the flaws
within human nature will seep in.

I think science has more right going for it than wrong; however, that only
helps hide or helps people to ignore what it could be wrong about.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
People tend to see what they want, be it the best in those they like and
agree with, or worse in those they dislike and disagree with, or whatever it
is that proves their point. Science when it comes to things that cannot be
proven wrong, well the human bias is always going to be look at things in
the light that shows their own views as acceptable, and ...[text shortened]... g; however, that only
helps hide or helps people to ignore what it could be wrong about.
Kelly

Of course the OP is full of rhetorical hyperbole. This comment of yours is more sensible.

There is nothing a scientist likes more than disproving a theory that has been promoted and/or accepted as science. People should not advance creationism as science, if they want to avoid this. If they can't stand the heat, they should stay out of the kitchen.

Originally posted by JS357
Of course the OP is full of rhetorical hyperbole. This comment of yours is more sensible.

There is nothing a scientist likes more than disproving a theory that has been promoted and/or accepted as science. People should not advance creationism as science, if they want to avoid this. If they can't stand the heat, they should stay out of the kitchen.

I'm a Creationist and I reject that too. It is faith, no one can show evidence
for God speaking the universe into being. You accept or reject, I do believe
that the fact it runs like a watch to support life shows us God's finger print,
but that for me is also faith, anyone can reject that out of hand.
Kelly