Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. SubscriberFMF
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    23 Feb '19 05:461 edit
    There are some variations. But, to kick this off, here are the Ten Commandments I grew up with.

    1. I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have any strange gods before Me

    2. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God

    3. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

    4. Honor your Father and Mother

    5. You shall not kill

    6. You shall not commit adultery with somebody's spouse

    7. You shall not steal

    8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour

    9. You shall not covet your neighbour's house

    10. You shall not covet your neighbour's wife


    Two assumptions for this thread:

    [1] Let us assume that the author of these is the creator God and that He is providing timeless moral leadership and standards.

    [2] And let's assume they are not just some rules written by humans which reflected the morality of their time ~ which were then attributed to God [and still are].

    Question:

    Do you believe these are comprehensive and foresighted or are there some common types of "sin"/moral imperatives missing?
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    23 Feb '19 09:14
    @FMF

    I think that if you tie yourself to ancient texts, written in the idiom of their time, eventually the gap between present and past reality becomes too difficult to maintain. In that sense God seems behind the curve on things like equality and diversity, environment, compassion and so on. On the other hand I think it should be possible to argue that as the social sciences uncover more about the human condition God can have us add the necessary codicils to the original list, as and when we have shown ourselves ready for the next stage of an ongoing "revelation".
    I do occasionally speculate on how much a jumped up species humanity can be. Why should we think that we should be the end of the story and that some other species will not appear, cart us off round the universe, and either keep us in tanks or farm us for our meat?
  3. Standard memberKellyJay
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    23 Feb '19 10:11
    @fmf said
    There are some variations. But, to kick this off, here are the Ten Commandments I grew up with.

    [b]1. I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have any strange gods before Me

    2. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God

    3. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

    4. Honor your Father and Mother

    5. You shall not kill

    6. You shall not commit adultery with ...[text shortened]... are comprehensive and foresighted or are there some common types of "sin"/moral imperatives missing?
    The first few Commandments speak to our relationship with God, who He is, what He has done, and how we are to respect Him. On His authority all the Commandments zero in on what is to be considered by God to be holy, just, and sacred revoking our logic, reason, and desires, and setting up boundaries for us in our interactions with God and man.

    The last few Commandments show the establishment for a day of rest, family, marriage vows, truth speaking, other’s lives, and their positions, and even how we are to even think about others and their things. Each person’s life, family unit, and possessions are to be considered holy since they are a gift from God to them. These are not to be violated in thought, word, or deed.

    If people obeyed these, what would the world look like?
  4. SubscriberFMF
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    @kellyjay said
    The first few Commandments speak to our relationship with God, who He is, what He has done, and how we are to respect Him. On His authority all the Commandments zero in on what is to be considered by God to be holy, just, and sacred revoking our logic, reason, and desires, and setting up boundaries for us in our interactions with God and man.
    When asked about the Commandments, Jesus didn't mention these ones:

    1. I am the Lord your God
    2. You shall have no other gods before me
    3. Do not take the name of the Lord in vain
    4. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

    But Jesus, according to Mark 10:17-23, did mention these commandments:

    a. You shall not kill/murder
    b. You shall not commit adultery
    c. You shall not steal
    d. You shall not bear false witness
    e. You shall not cheat
    f. Honour your father and mother

    "You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honour your father and mother.’" ~ Mark 10:17-23

    Were these, judging by Jesus' answer, the six more important ones?
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    23 Feb '19 10:501 edit
    @kellyjay said
    If people obeyed these, what would the world look like?
    I don't have any objection to the last six commandments. They promote virtue that accords with my own moral compass ~ indeed, those six commandments [by way of "nurture"] have undoubtedly shaped my moral sensibilities.

    But if people obeyed these commandments [for instance]...

    You shall not own human beings as chattel

    You shall not rape

    ...what would the world have looked like, what would it look like, and how might it look in the future?
  6. Standard memberKellyJay
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    23 Feb '19 10:53
    @fmf said
    When asked about the Commandments, Jesus didn't mention these ones:

    1. I am the Lord your God
    2. You shall have no other gods before me
    3. Do not take the name of the Lord in vain
    4. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

    But Jesus, according to Mark 10:17-23, did mention these ones:

    a. You shall not kill/murder
    b. You shall not commit adultery
    c. You shall not steal ...[text shortened]... and mother.’" ~ Mark 10:17-23

    Were these, judging by Jesus' answer, the six more important ones?
    He didn't have to mention them, what He pointed out to a crowd of people when He was being questioned, people all of whom knew what the Commandments, the top two priorities love God, and love your fellowman, and if you do those two things, all of the others would be done except one. Remembering the Sabbath is fulfilled in Christ as He has become our Sabbath rest.

    With respect to the question asked to Him in Mark that was to a specific person. If you read on you'll see Jesus touched him where he lived.

    Mark 10:
    And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’” And he said to him, “Teacher, all these I have kept from my youth.” And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” Disheartened by the saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.
  7. Standard memberKellyJay
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    23 Feb '19 10:56
    @fmf said
    I don't have any objection to the last six commandments. They promote virtue that accords with my own moral compass ~ indeed, those six commandments [by way of "nurture"] have undoubtedly shaped my moral sensibilities.

    But if people obeyed these commandments [for instance]...

    You shall not own human beings as chattel

    You shall not rape

    ...what would the world have looked like, what would it look like, and how might it look in the future?
    You think what you say here is not covered in the ten?
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    23 Feb '19 10:59
    @kellyjay said
    The last few Commandments show the establishment for a day of rest, family, marriage vows, truth speaking, other’s lives, and their positions, and even how we are to even think about others and their things. Each person’s life, family unit, and possessions are to be considered holy since they are a gift from God to them. These are not to be violated in thought, word, or deed.
    Here's an interesting one.

    You shall be charitable and fight poverty

    The Ten Commandments command people not to covet the things of others, but they don’t command people to be charitable and fight poverty. Though it might be unclear how charitable we need to be, or how much we should give up to fight poverty, we all should be charitable and fight poverty to some degree. In light of the extent of need and poverty around the world along with the general human tendency to do nothing about it, an adequate list of fundamental moral rules should instruct people to combat as much poverty and need as they can within reasonable limits.


    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-stringer/5-significant-things-that_b_9805452.html

    What do you think about that?
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    23 Feb '19 10:59
    @kellyjay said
    You think what you say here is not covered in the ten?
    No, not really. Why?
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    23 Feb '19 11:02
    @kellyjay said
    He didn't have to mention them, what He pointed out to a crowd of people when He was being questioned, people all of whom knew what the Commandments, the top two priorities love God, and love your fellowman, and if you do those two things, all of the others would be done except one. Remembering the Sabbath is fulfilled in Christ as He has become our Sabbath rest.
    Jesus' priorities - when taking the opportunity to talk about commandments - are interesting though. You say "people all knew what the Commandments were". So why did Jesus itemize any of them?
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    23 Feb '19 11:091 edit
    @ragwort said
    I think it should be possible to argue that as the social sciences uncover more about the human condition God can have us add the necessary codicils to the original list, as and when we have shown ourselves ready for the next stage of an ongoing "revelation".
    I wonder how Christians would envisage this happening, although they have a few Bible verses ~ if I recall correctly ~ that head this possibility off at the pass - most notably Revelation 22:18-19.

    That aside, as a neutral observer [and taking on Assumption #1 and #2], what Commandments would you envisage being added to the Ten - as a priority - once "we have shown ourselves ready" in terms of our shared human condition?
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    @kellyjay said
    You think what you say here is not covered in the ten?
    Which ones? 1. I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have any strange gods before Me 2. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God 3. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy 4. Honor your Father and Mother 5. You shall not kill 6. You shall not commit adultery with somebody's spouse 7. You shall not steal 8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour 9. You shall not covet your neighbour's house 10. You shall not covet your neighbour's wife
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    @ragwort said
    @FMF

    I think that if you tie yourself to ancient texts, written in the idiom of their time, eventually the gap between present and past reality becomes too difficult to maintain. In that sense God seems behind the curve on things like equality and diversity, environment, compassion and so on.
    God seems behind the curve on things like equality and diversity, environment, compassion and so on

    "God seems behind the curve" is an interesting euphemism.

    By which I mean a euphemism pointing towards not complying with Assumption #2... Let's assume the Ten Commandments are not just some rules written by humans which reflected the morality of their time ~ which were then attributed to God [and still are]. [insert smiley here... my browser doesn't display them]
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    @kellyjay said
    And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”
    If Jesus stated this, in this context, and it was recorded and included in scripture, why isn't it a new, additional Commandment?
  15. Standard memberKellyJay
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    23 Feb '19 11:22
    @fmf said
    Here's an interesting one.

    You shall be charitable and fight poverty

    [quote]The Ten Commandments command people not to covet the things of others, but they don’t command people to be charitable and fight poverty. Though it might be unclear how charitable we need to be, or how much we should give up to fight poverty, we all should be charitable and fight poverty to so ...[text shortened]... gtonpost.com/ryan-stringer/5-significant-things-that_b_9805452.html

    What do you think about that?
    If you loved them, you'd take care of them, Jesus' example of the Samaritan illustrates this. Taking care of some people is not always removing them from what their lifestyles and choices have done to them. You cannot for example keep removing bad consequences for someone who has turned their lives over to drugs or some other vice, if you did you would destroy them. If you can help someone out of love you should.
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