02 May 23
@fmf saidWhether or not kellyjay answered honestly in that thread he knows what he posted. So when he called me a “liar” when I reposted it, must have been a lie itself.
Thread 195809 page 10, KellyJay's third post.
KellyJay is
[1] pretending the exchange never happened [i.e. just blanking it out like a child], and
[2] converting the fact he is pretending the exchange never happened into a "KellyJay fact" that would have himself believe that the exchange never happened in order to hide behind it and call you a liar.
For whose consumption is his performative dishonesty?
I think all these tub-thumping cries of “liar” and “deceiver” at myself and rajk999 reveal nothing more than pure white-knuckle anger.
02 May 23
@fmf saidWho said anything about your lack of belief? Or the crediblity of it?
The burden of proof is yours, regardless of whether you think my lack of belief has credibility.
The burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that the dead don't know they're dead since it was you that made the assertion.
02 May 23
@josephw saidIf you read the OP again, you will see the OP question gives you the burden of proof. What proof is there that I a wrong? That's the thread question. If you're not interested, so be it.
The burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that the dead don't know they're dead since it was you that made the assertion.
02 May 23
@josephw saidFor example, my mother died four years ago and she has gone. I saw her being lowered into her grave. And, of course, she has been silent ever since. I have been given no reason to believe her personhood is still active or alive in any way or that she is communicating with anybody living or, indeed, with any other similarly dead people.
If the best thing about being dead is not knowing about it, and that's your assertion, then prove it.
All indications are that this has been the case for the 32,000,000,000 or so homo sapiens that have lived on Earth throughout human history and the same fate awaits the 8,000,000,000 humans that are on Earth today.
If you have evidence that I will be aware of the fact I'm dead after I die, and that the same applies ~ or will apply ~ to the 40,000,000,000 human beings I referred to, then just state what it is.
If you don't have any, or don't want to discuss it, or if you only have an angels-dancing-on-the-head-of-a-pin type answer, or if your stance is that consciousness-after-death is not an important "fact" that you need to establish in the propagation of your Christian beliefs, then that's OK. If it is just an article of faith for you and not evidence-based, then that's fine.
Life goes on [until it ends] and your hopes and dreams [and perspective] about your own immortality don't have any bearing on me. There is no onus on you to dissect what you believe and share it. I am simply interested in what you have to say.
02 May 23
@josephw saidNope. You are mistaken. I am not trying to prove anything to you or persuade you to change your beliefs. If you do not feel that any burden of proof accompanies your belief in human immortality, then you really don't need to post on this thread. Your belief is harmless, after all.
The burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that the dead don't know they're dead since it was you that made the assertion.
[Here is a tl;dr version of the previous post:] If you don't have any evidence of human consciousness continuing after death, or if you don't want to discuss it, or if you only have an angels-dancing-on-the-head-of-a-pin-type answer, or if your stance is that consciousness-after-death is not an important "fact" that you need to establish in the propagation of your Christian beliefs, then that's OK. If it is just an article of faith for you and not evidence-based, then that's fine.
02 May 23
@moonbus saidFMF said
I tried to get KJ to answer that and he wouldn’t. I don’t think you’ll get a straight answer of josephw either.
"[Thought exercise] Would you continue to worship your God figure if you found out or realized that there was no afterlife?"
It's a bizarre question since I am not going to find out that there's no afterlife.
John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:..
It's a done deal. Those that believe already have "everlasting life".
We won't ever be finding out or realizing there's no afterlife.
For the one that believes, the question of finding out or realizing there's no afterlife isn't a "thought exercise", but an aberration of thought altogether.
02 May 23
@josephw saidIt's a bizarre question since I am not going to find out that there's no afterlife.
FMF said
"[Thought exercise] Would you continue to worship your God figure if you found out or realized that there was no afterlife?"
It's a bizarre question since I am not going to find out that there's no afterlife.
Perhaps you do not know what a thought exercise is, then.
@fmf saidYou're really nothing more than a sophist FMF.
Nope. You are mistaken. I am not trying to prove anything to you or persuade you to change your beliefs. If you do not feel that any burden of proof accompanies your belief in human immortality, then you really don't need to post on this thread. Your belief is harmless, after all.
[Here is a tl;dr version of the previous post:] If you don't have any evidence of human conscious ...[text shortened]... then that's OK. If it is just an article of faith for you and not evidence-based, then that's fine.
02 May 23
@josephw saidYes, but this is a thought exercise. Try this version of it: Would you continue to worship your God figure if there was no promise of an afterlife?
John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:..
It's a done deal. Those that believe already have "everlasting life".
We won't ever be finding out or realizing there's no afterlife.
02 May 23
@josephw saidThose who really and truly believe have everlasting life.
John 3:36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:..
It's a done deal. Those that believe already have "everlasting life".
We won't ever be finding out or realizing there's no afterlife.
For the one that believes, the question of finding out or realizing there's no afterlife isn't a "thought exercise", but an aberration of thought altogether.
Those who only profess to believe have nothing.
Churches preach mouth professions of faith, and condemn works.
Christ and the Apostles preached practical and honest professions of faith ie faith PLUS works. These works and righteous lifestyles are clearly described throughout the teachings of Christ and the Aposltes. Church dogma excludes all these.
02 May 23
@fmf saidYou are merely driving a narrative that doesn't exist except in your mind.
Yes, but this is a thought exercise. Try this version of it: Would you continue to worship your God figure if there was no promise of an afterlife?
The biblical narrative says the believer already has everlasting life.
The "thought exercise" is for you.
Continuing to project your unbelief by engaging a believer in your negative mindset is only an exercise in futility.
02 May 23
@fmf saidIt's not dodging when I strait forwardly tell you that your words are those of rhetorical sophistry.
Responding to what I said in this way is simply a dodge.
You continue to reject and dismiss all answers to you questions virtually out of hand no matter the topic, and perpetuate a never ending barrage of objections seemingly without a fragment of consideration for the honest replies given to you, which makes it appear that you're only interested in hearing yourself talk.