1. Joined
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    22 Mar '08 23:41
    society changes and the bible doesnt. i think that the morality in the bible doesnt apply to today. i think people should let go of those morals and make their own, i tried to explain this to my mom but she got pissed. for example, i dont believe that gays are going to hell although i dont believe in hell, if there was a hell, i dont think god would send gays to hell. opinions?
  2. tinyurl.com/ywohm
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    22 Mar '08 23:54
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    society changes and the bible doesnt. i think that the morality in the bible doesnt apply to today. i think people should let go of those morals and make their own, i tried to explain this to my mom but she got pissed. for example, i dont believe that gays are going to hell although i dont believe in hell, if there was a hell, i dont think god would send gays to hell. opinions?
    Envision a world in which everyone makes their own morals. Now I don't agree with a lot of what's passed off as Biblical teaching by people who ignore other things written in the same book. But a whole world full of people like my mother and uncle who think that however they want to screw people over for pleasure is OK because they make their own morals? Pass. Do I think people will go to hell because they're homosexual? No way. Ditto for being divorced, any particular religion, no particular religion, etc.
  3. Joined
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    23 Mar '08 00:011 edit
    Originally posted by pawnhandler
    Envision a world in which everyone makes their own morals.
    Shouldn't be too difficult. Unfortunately one only need take a look around. From what I can tell, "Christians" are as guilty of this as the general public.
  4. Joined
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    23 Mar '08 11:37
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Shouldn't be too difficult. Unfortunately one only need take a look around. From what I can tell, "Christians" are as guilty of this as the general public.
    You're right of course. When one looks at it objectively one sees little difference between believer and unbeliever alike. Being a Christian doesn't make one immune to sin, or sinning. But this is only a cursory look at the issue from the perspective of the flesh. What we see on the surface does not necessarily reflect what goes on at the deeper spiritual level.

    The way I see it there are 3 kinds of Christians.

    1. The true believer. (He is the one that has trusted in Christ for his salvation)

    2. The one who thinks he is a Christian.(Self deceived)

    3. The one who professes Christ, but doesn't really believe.(Uses Christ as a means for material gain)
  5. Joined
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    23 Mar '08 11:53
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    society changes and the bible doesnt. i think that the morality in the bible doesnt apply to today. i think people should let go of those morals and make their own, i tried to explain this to my mom but she got pissed. for example, i dont believe that gays are going to hell although i dont believe in hell, if there was a hell, i dont think god would send gays to hell. opinions?
    "society changes and the bible doesnt."

    Will you explain what you mean by this?

    Get this strait, people don't "go to hell" because of any particular sin. The Bible teaches that it is sin that separates us from God. Sin is dealt with at the cross. Believe that Christ died for you so that you don't have to answer for it at the judgement. If one dies in one's sin, one is eternally separated from God. That is what the Bible teaches. Believe it or not, it's our choice. Believe what the Bible says or don't.
  6. Standard membernmdavidb
    I Drank What? ©
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    23 Mar '08 13:391 edit
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    society changes and the bible doesnt.
    The Bible does change. In the wonderful book and movie "Inherit The Wind", which was about the Scopes trial, there was a quote from Genesis about when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden of eden "the others scoffed them".

    When noone could define that...they conviently took it out.

    The bible that is available today is alot different than the Gutenberg or other older ones.

    Humpty Dumpty hasn't changed, neither has Little Red Riding Hood.

    Dave

    edit: and btw, there have been more versions of the New Testament then there are words in the New Testament
  7. Joined
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    23 Mar '08 14:05
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    society changes and the bible doesnt. i think that the morality in the bible doesnt apply to today. i think people should let go of those morals and make their own, i tried to explain this to my mom but she got pissed. for example, i dont believe that gays are going to hell although i dont believe in hell, if there was a hell, i dont think god would send gays to hell. opinions?
    Bible doesn't change but interpretations people make of the Bible do.
  8. Standard membernmdavidb
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    23 Mar '08 14:37
    Originally posted by serigado
    Bible doesn't change but interpretations people make of the Bible do.
    Isn't the Bible just an interpretation to begin with??

    Dave
  9. Joined
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    23 Mar '08 14:492 edits
    Originally posted by josephw
    You're right of course. When one looks at it objectively one sees little difference between believer and unbeliever alike. Being a Christian doesn't make one immune to sin, or sinning. But this is only a cursory look at the issue from the perspective of the flesh. What we see on the surface does not necessarily reflect what goes on at the deeper spiritual le ...[text shortened]... e who professes Christ, but doesn't really believe.(Uses Christ as a means for material gain)
    If something is truly going on "at the deeper spiritual level" it will be manifested outwardly. It's unfortunate that so few actually come to know Jesus.

    1 John 2:3 -6:
    By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
  10. Standard memberknightmeister
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    23 Mar '08 18:561 edit
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    If something is truly going on "at the deeper spiritual level" it will be manifested outwardly. It's unfortunate that so few actually come to know Jesus.

    1 John 2:3 -6:
    By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the trut ...[text shortened]... 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
    Sorry , the detector went off again !!

    May I ask , have you come to know him? If so , was it via the Holy Spirit?

    What does knowing him or abiding in him mean to you? Jesus said that the way we come to know him is by following him but also by him making his home in us and us making our home in him. What was he talking about do you think? Was he just being flowering with his language - or did he mean it ? What he said about the Holy Spirit strongly suggests that he meant it and yet when I tried to discuss the Holy Spirit with you , you just wouldn't finish the thread.
  11. Joined
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    23 Mar '08 19:08
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Sorry , the detector went off again !!

    May I ask , have you come to know him? If so , was it via the Holy Spirit?

    What does knowing him or abiding in him mean to you? Jesus said that the way we come to know him is by following him but also by him making his home in us and us making our home in him. What was he talking about do you think? Was he ...[text shortened]... and yet when I tried to discuss the Holy Spirit with you , you just wouldn't finish the thread.
    The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
  12. Standard memberknightmeister
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    23 Mar '08 20:531 edit
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
    Is that you saying this or is it you thinking it's you saying this?

    Can you stop sniping at Christians without revealing anything of your own beliefs please. It's intellectually dishonest. I know transparency is not your strong point but you need to come out from behind the fog before you can criticise others. Until you can clarify your beliefs about Jesus and whether you have overcome yourself then you have not earned the right to preach to others on him.

    In addition to this you are now quoting from people other than Jesus in the NT . I thought St Paul et al were just distorters and "extrapolators"???!!! And yet here you are using them to support your position. Amazing! (my hypocrisy detector just blew up) 🙄🙄🙄
  13. Joined
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    23 Mar '08 21:14
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Is that you saying this or is it you thinking it's you saying this?

    Can you stop sniping at Christians without revealing anything of your own beliefs please. It's intellectually dishonest. I know transparency is not your strong point but you need to come out from behind the fog before you can criticise others. Until you can clarify your beliefs abo ...[text shortened]... re using them to support your position. Amazing! (my hypocrisy detector just blew up) 🙄🙄🙄
    the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
  14. Joined
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    23 Mar '08 21:26
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    If something is truly going on "at the deeper spiritual level" it will be manifested outwardly. It's unfortunate that so few actually come to know Jesus.

    1 John 2:3 -6:
    By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the trut ...[text shortened]... 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
    1John:8,9
    If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    You really aught to read a little further along.

    Think for a minute. An individual receives Christ as their saviour while still in their sins. Right? At the moment of conversion all their sins are forgiven them. Right? Do you honestly think that that individual is suddenly going to just stop sinning? (There is a good deal more to this, but Let's not go there at the moment)

    Spiritual growth is a process that can take years. It all depends.
  15. Standard memberknightmeister
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    23 Mar '08 21:32
    Originally posted by josephw
    1John:8,9
    If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    You really aught to read a little further along.

    Think for a minute. An individual receives Christ as their saviour while still in their sins. ...[text shortened]... t go there at the moment)

    Spiritual growth is a process that can take years. It all depends.
    Oh no! Watch out Joseph! ToO won't like that. You must be perfected before Christ will accept you.
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