the bible is written in stone

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
what evidence? why do you need evidence in religion? if you have proofs then it is not religion anymore it is fact

So why would you believe something for which you have no evidence? And don't confuse 'evidence' with 'proof'.

Originally posted by twhitehead
So why would you believe something for which you have no evidence? And don't confuse 'evidence' with 'proof'.

well first, lack of evidence for an object doesn't mean the object doesn't exist.
EDIT: believing without evidence is not scientifical. a doctor doesn't have the right to believe medicine, he must know it. i can afford a religion as my job as a programmer often requires me to pray to a higher power for the code to work 😀 just kidding /EDIT

second, believing in my god, in jesus to be precise doesn't inconvenience me in any way. the things jesus asks us to do (eg be nice) i would have done anyway

thirdly i would hate to be made a fool at the final judgment for being an atheist. if god doesn't exist i don't lose anything since i am worm food and don't care.

and of course the existence of a supreme being does make the mess we call existence more reasonable. would be pretty untidy if this universe would have been the object of chance. did you know that most of the fundamental forces are finely tuned and if any of them are moved in either direction by the slightest, the universe could not have formed? so i guess a god added to this picture is a little more comforting

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
society changes and the bible doesnt. i think that the morality in the bible doesnt apply to today. i think people should let go of those morals and make their own, i tried to explain this to my mom but she got pissed. for example, i dont believe that gays are going to hell although i dont believe in hell, if there was a hell, i dont think god would send gays to hell. opinions?

God doesn't send gays to hell just because they're gay. Those who claim this do not understand the Message Christ gives us .... and there are an awfull lot of those people out there ... both Christian and secular people.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You acknowledge that the Bible is open to interpretation, yet you ask "yes/no" questions without stating how you are using your terms. I can only think, well, what does he mean by "The Christ"? What does he mean by "God's salvation"? What's up with "I mean, without Christ there can be no salvation?"? Is this a question?

Why don't you try telling me what you believe and ask me where we don't agree?

Alright then. If you were going to tell someone about Christ, what would you say?

Originally posted by twhitehead
And do you find that to be a self evident truth or is it something you desire? Is the God of the Bible the God you want to believe in, or the God that you think must exist despite your personal preferences?

I realize that the focal point of each religion is different, but too often find people making statements similar to yours which essentially say "m ...[text shortened]... ements to the effect that they believe what they want to believe regardless of the evidence.

"And do you find that to be a self evident truth or is it something you desire?"

Neither! The truth about God is not dependant on what I think or want.

Originally posted by josephw
Alright then. If you were going to tell someone about Christ, what would you say?

A spectacularly good question ...........I'd love to see the response and whether it has any correlation with Biblical theology.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
well first, lack of evidence for an object doesn't mean the object doesn't exist.

Of course it doesn't. It does mean however that there is only an infinitely small chance that it does exist.

second, believing in my god, in jesus to be precise doesn't inconvenience me in any way. the things jesus asks us to do (eg be nice) i would have done anyway
You are wrong about that. It almost certainly does both inconvenience and benefit you in various ways. I doubt that the sum total is zero.

thirdly i would hate to be made a fool at the final judgment for being an atheist. if god doesn't exist i don't lose anything since i am worm food and don't care.
Ah, thats called Pascals Wager and you should do some reading up on it.
1. You will get made a fool of by the spaghetti monster, Zeus, and all the other gods you didn't pray to.
2. As mentioned before, you do lose and gain from your beliefs, your claim that they do not affect you is a lie or just plain ignorance.

and of course the existence of a supreme being does make the mess we call existence more reasonable. would be pretty untidy if this universe would have been the object of chance.
And what is your God if not an object of finely tuned chance? Who made him?

did you know that most of the fundamental forces are finely tuned and if any of them are moved in either direction by the slightest, the universe could not have formed?
A different universe would have formed. So what? If you throw a dice and it lands on 5 then it only did so because it exact path through spacetime was so finely tuned that it landed on 5. Even the slightest change in one of its atoms might have changed that number to a 4. Does that mean it was not a result of chance or that God made it land on 5?

so i guess a god added to this picture is a little more comforting
What is so uncomfortable about the universe coming about by chance? Suppose your parents tell you they met by chance. Without which you would not have been born. Would you then have to believe that God arranged it - so as to be more comforting?

Originally posted by josephw
Alright then. If you were going to tell someone about Christ, what would you say?

That despite the protests of many, Jesus has had very few true followers. That very few have followed His commandments and that very few have loved Him.

John 14:21-24
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself unto him. Judas (not Iscariot) saith unto him, Lord, what is come to pass that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my word: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my words.

That Jesus taught one to follow the will of God, i.e., live a life of truth, love, compassion, justice, etc. That Jesus commands one to overcome sin.

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will tell me in that day,'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?' Then I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'


John 8:32-35
"You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free"
"They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."
"And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever."

That Jesus taught that one must overcome the desires of the self and of this world in order to follow Him.

Luke 9:23-24
"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it."


John 12:25-26
"He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour."

Originally posted by knightmeister
So Jesus didn't say anything about eternal life then?

Jesus said that anyone who has faith in Him shall have eternal life. So yes, He did indeed say something about eternal life.

Originally posted by knightmeister
A spectacularly good question ...........I'd love to see the response and whether it has any correlation with Biblical theology.

I would start by telling the person(s) that He loves them.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne


John 14:21-24
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself unto him. Judas (not Iscariot) saith unto him, Lord, what is come to pass that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and sai ...[text shortened]... hall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour." [/b]

"That despite the protests of many, Jesus has had very few true followers. That very few have followed His commandments and that very few have loved Him."

So true. And while I agree with what you are asserting here, I would question it's application. My question is this, how do we make the application of the life of Christ in us manifest? If you please I would like to know your thoughts on the following verses.

Rom. 8:3,4
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"That despite the protests of many, Jesus has had very few true followers. That very few have followed His commandments and that very few have loved Him."

So true. And while I agree with what you are asserting here, I would question it's application. My question is this, how do we make the application of the life of Christ in us manifest? If you pl ...[text shortened]... ness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[/b]

Before moving on to Paul, why don't we discuss the words of Jesus?

Can you elaborate on the following?:
"So true. And while I agree with what you are asserting here, I would question it's application. My question is this, how do we make the application of the life of Christ in us manifest?"

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Before moving on to Paul, why don't we discuss the words of Jesus?

Can you elaborate on the following?:
"So true. And while I agree with what you are asserting here, I would question it's application. My question is this, how do we make the application of the life of Christ in us manifest?"

HMMM...Let's think ...did jesus say anything about him living in us via the Holy Spirit? Maybe it was something to do with that irrelevant "ritual" at the last supper?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
That despite the protests of many, Jesus has had very few true followers. That very few have followed His commandments and that very few have loved Him.

John 14:21-24
[b]He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself unto h hall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour." [/b]

...and what did jesus teach us about the Holy Spirit and remission of sin? Or do you just happen to leave that out EVERY time you quote him?

Me thinks he taught a lot more than just the things you quote.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Before moving on to Paul, why don't we discuss the words of Jesus?

Can you elaborate on the following?:
"So true. And while I agree with what you are asserting here, I would question it's application. My question is this, how do we make the application of the life of Christ in us manifest?"

Jesus was without sin, correct? He knew no sin. Jesus also kept the law perfectly. In fact, Jesus took the law to the nth degree. For example: Matt.5:27,28

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

Now my point is this, and I make it with a question. How does one keep the law? How does one aspire to a sinless state? By what power, and by what strength do we measure up?

I have to say, I am fascinated by this subject. It is a discussion I have had with others. I'll not beat around the bush with you either. I believe I know the answer, and I'm very curious to hear what you have to say.