The book of Acts

Originally posted by duecer
Jesus used real and figurative examples, but we are talking about prophecy.

James 1: The letter to the Ephesians, is that just for people in Turkey, or the whole world? The letter for the twelve tribes (James) was addressed to just that... the twelve tribes, doesn't mean we can't learn from it; and this doesn't prove the 144,000 are "spiritual Jews"

1 P e who believe and produce fruit, this in now way contradicts a literal view of the 144,000

The Jews are still God's people? How is that since they were instrumental in his own son's death and still rejects him as the messiah and saviour?.
Do you not get the point here that the 144,000 could not be the Jews and as I mentioned before there were never enough of the Jews during Jesus's time to fill that number...Think!!!

Originally posted by galveston75
The Jews are still God's people? How is that since they were instrumental in his own son's death and still rejects him as the messiah and saviour?.
Do you not get the point here that the 144,000 could not be the Jews and as I mentioned before there were never enough of the Jews during Jesus's time to fill that number...Think!!!

not enough Jews in Jesus' time? really? maybe you should rethink that response. Even if that were true, there were over 5 million believers less than 50 years after the resurrection, there have been literally billions of Christians since.

Pontius Pilate and Roman soldiers killed Jesus, though if it was Jews it would certainly not exclude them from salvation, if it did, then Peter, James, John, Paul, Thomas, Stephen and all the rest would have been excluded. For the record, not all Jews rejected Jesus, and not all gentiles have accepted him, so logically your argument can't be true.

Originally posted by duecer
not enough Jews in Jesus' time? really? maybe you should rethink that response. Even if that were true, there were over 5 million believers less than 50 years after the resurrection, there have been literally billions of Christians since.

Pontius Pilate and Roman soldiers killed Jesus, though if it was Jews it would certainly not exclude them from salvatio ...[text shortened]... ected Jesus, and not all gentiles have accepted him, so logically your argument can't be true.

Your still not listening. You have to in order to understand what I'm saying. Did I say not enough Jews or did I not say there were not enough that were following Jesus and that would have qualified for the things Jesus said that would show who the chosen ones were?
I also did say that yes there are many others that may have qualified to be in this little flock that are not JW's. Did I not?
And yes the Jews were very instamental in Jesus death.

John 7:9-13, 30-45 (New International Version)

9 After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.
10 However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret. 11 Now at the festival the Jewish leaders were watching for Jesus and asking, “Where is he?”
12 Among the crowds there was widespread whispering about him. Some said, “He is a good man.”
Others replied, “No, he deceives the people.” 13 But no one would say anything publicly about him for fear of the leaders.

30- 45

30 At this they tried to seize him, but no one laid a hand on him, because his hour had not yet come. 31 Still, many in the crowd believed in him. They said, “When the Messiah comes, will he perform more signs than this man?”
32 The Pharisees heard the crowd whispering such things about him. Then the chief priests and the Pharisees sent temple guards to arrest him.
33 Jesus said, “I am with you for only a short time, and then I am going to the one who sent me. 34 You will look for me, but you will not find me; and where I am, you cannot come.”
35 The Jews said to one another, “Where does this man intend to go that we cannot find him? Will he go where our people live scattered among the Greeks, and teach the Greeks? 36 What did he mean when he said, ‘You will look for me, but you will not find me,’ and ‘Where I am, you cannot come’?”
37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[a] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.
40 On hearing his words, some of the people said, “Surely this man is the Prophet.”
41 Others said, “He is the Messiah.”
Still others asked, “How can the Messiah come from Galilee? 42 Does not Scripture say that the Messiah will come from David’s descendants and from Bethlehem, the town where David lived?” 43 Thus the people were divided because of Jesus. 44 Some wanted to seize him, but no one laid a hand on him.
Unbelief of the Jewish Leaders
45 Finally the temple guards went back to the chief priests and the Pharisees, who asked them, “Why didn’t you bring him in?”

Also: Luke 22:66–23:3; Matthew 27:1-11; Mark 15:1; John 18:28-35; Acts 1:16-20.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I was not mocking God, indeed as i pointed out, there is no way to know if it was divine intervention or not, all we have is your word for it, and unless you are now equated with being God, i deny the charge!

We are told we how careful we should be when addressing the things of God.
You said this, "Lol, perhaps a dove descended and the heavens were opened"

So the dove descending is the Spirit of God in the NT, the heavens God's
home, you laughingly mocked a statement of mine throwing those terms out
there as if you were speaking of a baseball game or something else equally
common. So yes, instead of throwing around God and God's home as if they
were common topics to be used as jokes, I'd say you without a doubt showed
God no respect.
Kelly

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i was referring to the experience not the scripture, if this is the best you have then i am sorry, its not good enough. Never the less, I shall take any blame, if i trivialised the scripture then so be it, i will answer to the most high not to you or any other would be judge!

Saying you were belitting the "experience" using God and God's home is not
an excuse! Also Jesus died for me and everyone else, you again mocking the
salvation of another while using God the way you did is all together wrong.
You are also correct you will give an account for you idle words as we will.
Those words of yours that you are still justifying, I'd go to God and ask His
forgiveness, or stand here among us, claiming you love God, and saying you
serve Him with that wicked mouth of yours while being unrepentent.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Saying you were belitting the "experience" using God and God's home is not
an excuse! Also Jesus died for me and everyone else, you again mocking the
salvation of another while using God the way you did is all together wrong.
You are also correct you will give an account for you idle words as we will.
Those words of yours that you are still justifying, d, and saying you
serve Him with that wicked mouth of yours while being unrepentent.
Kelly

i never stated that i belittled the experience, you did, i did not state that i was mocking God, you did, I never even mentioned Gods home? whatever you may construe that to be, you did, furthermore i did not state that you are in a position of salvation, you did, what is more i don't believe that you are and you cannot prove that you are for while holy spirit may be operative, these types of experiences can never be corroborated other than by the recipient themselves, so please stop pretending that you are some type of moral policeman sanctimoniously pontificating from your throne of righteousness, i answer to one and one only, infact, please tell me what it has got to do with you, yes that is correct, absolutely nothing! Why dont you light the fires, call an inquisition, burn the heretic at the stake! man you take yourself way to serious, but i suppose someone has to!

Originally posted by galveston75
Your still not listening. You have to in order to understand what I'm saying. Did I say not enough Jews or did I not say there were not enough that were following Jesus and that would have qualified for the things Jesus said that would show who the chosen ones were?
I also did say that yes there are many others that may have qualified to be in this lit ...[text shortened]... him in?”

Also: Luke 22:66–23:3; Matthew 27:1-11; Mark 15:1; John 18:28-35; Acts 1:16-20.

not all Jews rejected Jesus, and not all gentiles have accepted him, so logically your argument can't be true.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
its all spiritual, not cake my friend, for we can go through each and every one of the texts that you mentioned and establish our points. To say that its all cake, black and white cake is not true, for many parts of scripture are symbolic and others literal, you cannot say take it or leave it, its simply not that simple.

does not Paul state that ...[text shortened]... l, the Kingdom shall be taken from you and given to a people producing its friutage, etc etc etc

surely there areparts that are literal and parts that are symbolic. However they would not mix symbolic and literal in the same sentance or prophecy as that would only serve to confuse the word.

sorry RC you are quite wrong on this point. either they are both literal or they are both symbolic, which is it?

Originally posted by galveston75
How Many Are Sealed?
10 Jesus said to those in line for this sealing: “Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom.” (Luke 12:32) Other scriptures, such as Revelation 6:11 and Romans 11:25, indicate that the number of this little flock is indeed limited and, in fact, predetermined. John’s next words confirm thi ver 144,000 from that time of Jesus's words that ever responded to that invitation.

How Many Are Sealed?
10 Jesus said to those in line for this sealing: “Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom.” (Luke 12:32)

I find it quite ironic that you use this text (for several reasons). 1st: I used this same narrative to exemplify a point in a recent debate with you. 2nd: Once again you have cherry picked a verse. qouting a single verse out of context skews the entirwe meaning and is intellectually dishonest. 3rd: the context of that scripture is about not having fear, but being assured that God is watching over us.
4th: Jesus is speaking directly to his followers THEN and encouraging them to sell their posseions and give the proceeds to the poor.


In fact you misqouted the text, and I believe deliberately.

this scripture has nothing whatsoever to do with the usage that you implied.

Originally posted by duecer
surely there areparts that are literal and parts that are symbolic. However they would not mix symbolic and literal in the same sentance or prophecy as that would only serve to confuse the word.

sorry RC you are quite wrong on this point. either they are both literal or they are both symbolic, which is it?

ok, you win, i guess ill just take my points of Biblical reference, thoroughly founded upon scripture, roll them up into my haversack, put them into the caravan and trundle along, safe in the knowledge that you have provided incontrovertible evidence that the Jews spoken of in the book of revelation are literal Jews, despite the teachings of the Christ and despite the teaching of Paul!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ok, you win, i guess ill just take my points of Biblical reference, thoroughly founded upon scripture, roll them up into my haversack, put them into the caravan and trundle along, safe in the knowledge that you have provided incontrovertible evidence that the Jews spoken of in the book of revelation are literal Jews, despite the teachings of the Christ and despite the teaching of Paul!

yes and of course I did not use any scripture whatsoever in this debate...you're a piece of work Robbo.

Originally posted by duecer
yes and of course I did not use any scripture whatsoever in this debate...you're a piece of work Robbo.

Duecer wins?

You da man!!

Any pointers? Is the key not using scripture?

Originally posted by whodey
Duecer wins?

You da man!!

Any pointers? Is the key not using scripture?

yes this is the key, otherwise, he's toast!

Originally posted by duecer
yes and of course I did not use any scripture whatsoever in this debate...you're a piece of work Robbo.

scriptures, let me see, nope i cannot find any, were they at the beginning, middle or end of your correspondence? but what's the point was the point of my post, your right and that's all that matters!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i was referring to the experience not the scripture, if this is the best you have then i am sorry, its not good enough. Never the less, I shall take any blame, if i trivialised the scripture then so be it, i will answer to the most high not to you or any other would be judge!

Sorry, robbie, you're not going to be saved now. So close, though. If it had not been for that moment of folly...