1. Donationrwingett
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    20 Aug '09 23:35
    Who would like to join a discussion about the Book of Amos? This isn’t a book that gets as much attention as some of the junk, like Revalation, but I think it is much more interesting.

    I will start by noting the strong anti-commercial, anti-capitalist stance taken in Amos. Some would claim it is only a condemnation of the excesses of a capitalist mode of exchange, but I say it is a condemnation of that entire system itself. The entire notion of buying and selling for profit is under attack.

    Amos 8:4
    Hear this, you who trample upon the needy, and bring the poor of the land to an end, saying, “When will the new moon be over, that we may sell grain? And the sabbath, that we may offer wheat for sale, that we may make the ephah small and the shekel great, and deal deceitfully with false balances, that we may buy the poor for silver and the needy for a pair of sandals, and sell the refuse of the wheat?” The Lord has sworn by the pride of Jacob; “Surely I will never forget any of their deeds.

    The profit motive leads inexorably toward a separation from god. They are mutually exclusive.

    Matthew 6:24
    No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

    Alright, that’s enough to get us started.
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    20 Aug '09 23:47
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Who would like to join a discussion about the Book of Amos? This isn’t a book that gets as much attention as some of the junk, like Revalation, but I think it is much more interesting.

    I will start by noting the strong anti-commercial, anti-capitalist stance taken in Amos. Some would claim it is only a condemnation of the excesses of a capitalist mode o ...[text shortened]... pise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.[/i]

    Alright, that’s enough to get us started.
    For someone who deplores the mixing of politics and religion, you certainly like to explore the 'promised land'.
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    20 Aug '09 23:57
    Originally posted by divegeester
    For someone who deplores the mixing of politics and religion, you certainly like to explore the 'promised land'.
    He doesn't make sence does he? But he keeps us wondering for sure...Lol
  4. Donationrwingett
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    21 Aug '09 00:58
    Originally posted by divegeester
    For someone who deplores the mixing of politics and religion, you certainly like to explore the 'promised land'.
    It's a great topic of interest. Even as an atheist, I think religion could serve a useful purpose in the world. It currently does not, but it could. If Christians realize that their religion has little in common with what Jesus actually said, it could be updated for a post-theistic 21st century.

    But getting back to the topic at hand, do you have an opinion on the Book of Amos?
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    21 Aug '09 01:003 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Who would like to join a discussion about the Book of Amos? This isn’t a book that gets as much attention as some of the junk, like Revalation, but I think it is much more interesting.

    I will start by noting the strong anti-commercial, anti-capitalist stance taken in Amos. Some would claim it is only a condemnation of the excesses of a capitalist mode o ...[text shortened]... pise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.[/i]

    Alright, that’s enough to get us started.
    Excuse me but I missed the part about government stepping in and taking a certain percentage from the masses so THEY can decide how to divy it up as well as decide who the "poor" are. Of course, they do this while all the while they live high on a hog preaching to us how we should pay our fair share. Of course, that is when they even decide to pay the taxes they impose on themselves.

    Woops, my bad, that is in the book of Marx, not Amos. I just feel bad for the wealthy men in the bible such a Abraham and Job. Surely their wealth damned them for all eternity seeing as how they never gave it up entirely.
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    21 Aug '09 01:01
    If Christians realize that their religion has little in common with what Jesus actually said, it could be updated for a post-theistic 21st century.
    You are wrong there that's what Christanity is about
  7. Donationrwingett
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    21 Aug '09 01:14
    Originally posted by whodey
    Excuse me but I missed the part about government stepping in and taking a certain percentage from the masses so THEY can decide how to divy it up as well as decide who the "poor" are. Of course, they do this while all the while they live high on a hog preaching to us how we should pay our fair share. Of course, that is when they even decide to pay the taxes ...[text shortened]... Surely their wealth damned them for all eternity seeing as how they never gave it up entirely.
    If you have anything to say about the Book of Amos, then please do. If you're going to jabber on like a monkey, then please go back to the debates forum.
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    21 Aug '09 01:23
    Originally posted by rwingett
    [b]Who would like to join a discussion about the Book of Amos? This isn’t a book that gets as much attention as some of the junk, like Revalation,
    Revalation IS NOT JUNK!!!
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    21 Aug '09 01:40
    Originally posted by daniel58
    Revalation IS NOT JUNK!!!
    As a matter of fact, pretty much all of it can be pulled from various parts of the OT. People who say it is junk simply are ignorant as to this fact.
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    21 Aug '09 01:421 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    If you have anything to say about the Book of Amos, then please do. If you're going to jabber on like a monkey, then please go back to the debates forum.
    I am merely pointing out that there is no comparison to modern socialism today and what the Bible had to say regarding to the matter. Sure, people were encouraged to give to the poor. In fact, you might even say they were expected to do so in certain circumstances. Ironically, however, this was never imposed/regulated by the state of Israel nor was it suggested to be.
  11. Donationrwingett
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    21 Aug '09 01:59
    Originally posted by whodey
    I am merely pointing out that there is no comparison to modern socialism today and what the Bible had to say regarding to the matter. Sure, people were encouraged to give to the poor. In fact, you might even say they were expected to do so in certain circumstances. Ironically, however, this was never imposed/regulated by the state of Israel nor was it suggested to be.
    I have never claimed that there is any comparison between modern socialism and what the bible has to say. I have gone to great lengths to specifically avoid just that, but you don't seem to want to hear it.

    I have never suggested that the state of Israel imposed or regulated the treatment of the poor, and am not suggesting that Jesus said they should. Once again, you simply don't want to hear what I have been saying all along.

    I suggest you go back and reread every post I have ever made on the subject.
  12. Donationrwingett
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    21 Aug '09 02:03
    Originally posted by whodey
    As a matter of fact, pretty much all of it can be pulled from various parts of the OT. People who say it is junk simply are ignorant as to this fact.
    Thomas Jefferson said that Revelation was "merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams."
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    21 Aug '09 02:08
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Thomas Jefferson said that Revelation was "merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams."
    He also rejected the notion that Jesus Christ was resurrected from the dead. So your point is?
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    21 Aug '09 02:091 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I have never claimed that there is any comparison between modern socialism and what the bible has to say. I have gone to great lengths to specifically avoid just that, but you don't seem to want to hear it.

    I have never suggested that the state of Israel imposed or regulated the treatment of the poor, and am not suggesting that Jesus said they should. O ng all along.

    I suggest you go back and reread every post I have ever made on the subject.
    So what of Abraham and Job? Christ certainly did not think ill of them for their "wealth" Nor did the author of Amos.
  15. Donationrwingett
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    21 Aug '09 02:141 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    So what of Abraham and Job? Christ certainly did not think ill of them for their "wealth" Nor did the author of Amos.
    That is the topic for another day. This topic is about the Book of Amos. Do you have anything relevant to that discussion or not?

    I am certainly not the only one to raise these questions before. If you go to Wikipedia, you'll see there are entries on both Christian Socialism and Christian Communism. It is a current that has run through the Christian churches since the very beginning.
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