The Doctrine of Election

Originally posted by googlefudge
And thus nicely demonstrating how useless the bible is.

And yet to some it provides purpose and guidance, wisdom and stability. Anyone who dismisses the three thousand year old record of the most widely translated and widely available book in the history of humanity is in want of education.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
And yet to some it provides purpose and guidance, wisdom and stability. Anyone who dismisses the three thousand year old record of the most widely translated and widely available book in the history of humanity is in want of education.

There have been countless deaths, torture and hardships as a result of the bible (Inquisition, Crusades, Salem Witch Trials, etc.). So that doesn't sound like "stability". As for "wisdom", the bible is the reason why scientific progress has been stalled though out history (The church persecuting those who believed the earth revolved around the sun, religious folks being the only evolution deniers, etc.). Such results are the opposite of "guidance".

Though you'll inevitably blame the readers of the bible rather than the source for all these problems, it still shows that the bible has caused the exact opposite of providing "purpose", "guidance", "wisdom" or "stability".

Originally posted by Suzianne
Many people have ideas they claim come directly from passages in the Bible, but are usually their own personal twist on what they think those passages mean.

Look at creationists and their bizarre ideas about creation taking place in 6 24-hour days, for example. The Bible does not say that, it is their twisted interpretation. So saying that someone base ...[text shortened]... rather stretching a point. What it comes down to is their opinion of what those passages mean.

Do you believe that Paul was wrong in claiming that there's a predestined "elect", and that God predestined some "vessels" for "wrath"?

Originally posted by googlefudge
And thus nicely demonstrating how useless the bible is.

I thought *your* uselessness of the Bible pertained to your disbelief in God, and not the fact that some may have a different view of it than you.

If I'm wrong in that, feel free to correct me.

Otherwise, try to understand that your ignorance doesn't affect me very much at all, either way.

Originally posted by vivify
There have been countless deaths, torture and hardships as a result of the bible (Inquisition, Crusades, Salem Witch Trials, etc.). So that doesn't sound like "stability". As for "wisdom", the bible is the reason why scientific progress has been stalled though out history (The church persecuting those who believed the earth revolved around the sun, religiou ...[text shortened]... bible has caused the exact opposite of providing "purpose", "guidance", "wisdom" or "stability".

It is not the fault of religion for what some evil men will do. These evil men will do these evil things regardless of what the Bible says, or even what they "claim" it says.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I thought *your* uselessness of the Bible pertained to your disbelief in God, and not the fact that some may have a different view of it than you.

If I'm wrong in that, feel free to correct me.

Otherwise, try to understand that your ignorance doesn't affect me very much at all, either way.

I always feel free to correct you, but thanks all the same.

No the uselessness of the bible stems from the fact that it is so open to
interpretation that people can get it to mean pretty much anything they want.

If it can mean anything, it means nothing. Hence, useless.

Try to understand, your prejudice and ignorance about my thoughts and beliefs
will make you look stupid when you get it wrong.

Given that your pronouncements about what I believe are currently sitting at a
near zero percent accuracy rating you might want to think about stopping making
them and simply asking what I think.

Originally posted by Suzianne
It is not the fault of religion for what some evil men will do. These evil men will do these evil things regardless of what the Bible says, or even what they "claim" it says.

Firstly this is simply not true, there is plenty of evil that has been caused by
the religion of the bible.


However, and we have said this before but you chickened out of responding...

If your religion takes no responsibility for the evil done in it's name,
then it cannot take credit for any good done in it's name either.

Originally posted by Suzianne
It is not the fault of religion for what some evil men will do. These evil men will do these evil things regardless of what the Bible says, or even what they "claim" it says.

Those who kept denying that the earth revolved around the sun due biblical passages weren't necessarily "evil", were they? I'm sure they did what they truly believed in their hearts was right, according to the bible. They locked up Galileo because they thought he was spreading falsehoods and discrediting the bible's claims. They merely thought they were pleasing God by stopping this tool of Satan from spreading lies.

I don't think all these acts mentioned in the last post of mine that you responded to, were acts by cold-hearted villains. These were well-meaning people, who ended up committing evils because they were trying to follow the bible.

Make sense?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
And yet to some it provides purpose and guidance, wisdom and stability. Anyone who dismisses the three thousand year old record of the most widely translated and widely available book in the history of humanity is in want of education.

Says the moron who doesn't understand evolution or logic.

Popularity does not equal truth.

Anyone with an ounce of knowledge of logic and reason would know that.

But then your education wasn't really up to scratch was it.

Originally posted by vivify
Those who kept denying that the earth revolved around the sun due biblical passages weren't necessarily "evil", were they? I'm sure they did what they truly believed in their hearts was right, according to the bible. They locked up Galileo because they thought he was spreading falsehoods and discrediting the bible's claims. They merely thought they were pl ...[text shortened]... le, who ended up committing evils because they were trying to follow the bible.

Make sense?

Precisely.

Originally posted by vivify
There have been countless deaths, torture and hardships as a result of the bible (Inquisition, Crusades, Salem Witch Trials, etc.). So that doesn't sound like "stability". As for "wisdom", the bible is the reason why scientific progress has been stalled though out history (The church persecuting those who believed the earth revolved around the sun, religiou ...[text shortened]... bible has caused the exact opposite of providing "purpose", "guidance", "wisdom" or "stability".

there have been countless deaths at the hands of the misuse of science and technology, are we to blame science and technology for those deaths? If not then your post is irrational, unreasonable and poorly conceived. You seem to have trouble differentiating the church, its actions and the Bible itself as if they were synonymous, a common misconception. Further to that you have ignored in a blatantly biased manner the beautiful works of art and literature, music and prose, poetry and song that have been inspired by the Biblical accounts, in fact, much of western civilization owns a tremendous amount to how the Bible has shaped its culture and values.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
there have been countless deaths at the hands of the misuse of science and technology, are we to blame science and technology for those deaths? If not then your post is irrational, unreasonable and poorly conceived. You seem to have trouble differentiating the church, its actions and the Bible itself as if they were synonymous, a common misconcepti ...[text shortened]... estern civilization owns a tremendous amount to how the Bible has shaped its culture and values.

No we got the dark ages from Christianity.

We got modern civilisation from the renaissance and the philosophies of the ancient Greeks.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Says the moron who doesn't understand evolution or logic.

Popularity does not equal truth.

Anyone with an ounce of knowledge of logic and reason would know that.

But then your education wasn't really up to scratch was it.

yawn, ad hominem, logical fallacy and irrelevancy all rolled into one, your post is actually more a reflection of you than anyone else and you seem a rather bitter individual but there there it will be ok, simply slap your forehead a few times and you may do better next time because lets face it, you could hardly do any worse. I will repeat it again, you are in want of education.

Originally posted by googlefudge
No we got the dark ages from Christianity.

We got modern civilisation from the renaissance and the philosophies of the ancient Greeks.

and yet Titian, Caravaggio, Rembrandt etc were inspired by the Biblical accounts to paint some of their greatest works, oh dear another EPIC failure and the social reformers of the 19th century were directly motivated by their adherence to scriptural principles, why have you made no mention of them, shall i tell you, because you are in want of education.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
there have been countless deaths at the hands of the misuse of science and technology, are we to blame science and technology for those deaths? If not then your post is irrational, unreasonable and poorly conceived. You seem to have trouble differentiating the church, its actions and the Bible itself as if they were synonymous, a common misconcepti ...[text shortened]... estern civilization owns a tremendous amount to how the Bible has shaped its culture and values.

The difference is, that science doesn't claim to be some moral tool orchestrated by a perfect being. In fact, science claims nothing. It just is.

However, the bible does claim to be divinely-inspired words from a flawless being, who will also guide it's readers via the Holy Spirit...yet, so many unspeakable horrors have happened in the name of the bible and Christianity.