@divegeester
You're so lost in self appreciation and self congratulations that you can't see when a question has been answered.
I like humour just as much as the next guy. There's nothing amusing about your public dishonesty or apparent blindness to see your so-called "checkmate questions" (not) were addressed.
@sonship saidAn amalgamation of your two main sources of plagiarism.
@Ghost-of-a-DukeMakes a change from you copying Witness Nee.
Who is Witness Nee? Never heard the name.
Auditionng for the ignoramus of the month award?
But then you knew that.
@sonship saidI agree God is goodness and He acts that way all the time, the same thing is true
@KellyJay
[quote] Jesus Christ position in God is eternal, among us who are now among His family
He has the position of first born, it is one of rights. I agree with You while Jesus
took on our life His titles were altered changed in a time since because we have
not always been around so He could not be eternally many things that relate to
us eternally. Being the o ...[text shortened]... e has spoken well about what God is completely apart from His eternal purpose, I have never seen it.
of justice and love. It is even spelled out that way in James, our faith is on display
by how we treat one another, how deal with the needs around us. As God showed
us His love for us by sending Jesus to us, Jesus becoming one of us, and the Holy
Spirit also coming into us to teach and take on our nature and making us born
again by entering into our lives to do the things God wants.
The difficult thing is that our nature and God's are at odds with one another, we
must crucify ourselves to yield to Him. Yet, when we yield to God and resist the
devil this too is acting on our faith. Having to go through struggles isn't a sign of
weakness on our part because we have things that need to be put down in our
nature. Simply doing that is our part giving glory to the Son of God who died for
our sins! Our yielding to God by resisting our sinful nature putting an end to the
old man is our actions, they are not the reason God loves us, God does that before
the whole things starts in our lives. He first loves us, after that its all on Him and
we follow as we are led.
@sonship saidSure, but only if the next guy is Ivan the Terrible.
@divegeester
I like humour just as much as the next guy.
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An amalgamation of your two main sources of plagiarism.
But then you knew that.
It is interesting that being unable to actually refute the points being made you and Divegeester opts to making other complaints, like plagiarism.
You both keep coming up with Plan B attacks when your Plan A attacks continually fall flat.
I'd like somebody to demonstrate that their Plan A complaint, that the Son of God is not eternal, has any validity.
@sonship saidWhy is your copying of other peoples work, without consistently crediting the source, not to be regarded as plagiarism?
@Ghost-of-a-DukeAn amalgamation of your two main sources of plagiarism.
But then you knew that.
It is interesting that being unable to actually refute the points being made you and Divegeester opts to making other complaints, like plagiarism.
You both keep coming up with Plan B attacks when your Plan A attacks continually fall flat.
I'd lik ...[text shortened]... dy to demonstrate that their Plan A complaint, that the Son of God is not eternal, has any validity.
Is ignorance your defense?
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@KellyJay
My comments on this will be kind of skewed towards the subject of the Eternal Son. This may sound forced at times.
I agree God is goodness and He acts that way all the time, the same thing is true of justice and love.
No man has ever seen God, says John in (John 1:18). The only begotten Son Who is in the bosom of the Father has declared Him.
I don't know how any Christian can not realize that this is a mystery. It appears all the seeings of God in the Old Testament are superseded, transcended by the incarnation of the Son in Jesus Christ.
He declared God and manifested God. This also could meant it was the Son of God whom we kept seeing in the Old Testament "seeings" of God by Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Isaiah, Gideon, Hannah, etc.
Excuse me if you can, but my comments are kind of skewed towards the OP.
It is even spelled out that way in James, our faith is on display
by how we treat one another, how deal with the needs around us. As God showed us His love for us by sending Jesus to us,
In His eternal purpose the Triune God seeks to mass produce sons. That is to continue the manifestation of God in the flesh through the entity of the church.
I say the only begotten Son in the bosom of the Father came and died that He would be duplicated. He is the model. He is the prototype. The church is His duplication. We need to see this with understanding.
He is God eternal as a man. The church is the saved dispensed into by God to be the continuation of God's declaration of Himself.
For this reason I wrote that what God is in His three-oneness or in His nature I can hardly divorce from His eternal purpose made before the foundation of the world - to have [plural] sons of God enjoying "the place of a son" - "sonship".
Creation is expectant of this. Creation is groaning in travail (so to speak) waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God.
" For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the coming glory to be revealed upon us.
For the anxious watching of the creation eagerly awaits the revelation of the sons of God. " (Rom. 8:18-20)
These are the sons which God predestinated in the eternal Son before the creation of the universe to become sons.
"Even as He chose us in Him [Christ] before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love,
Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.
To the praise of the glory of His grace, with which He graced us in the Beloved." (Eph. 1:4-6)
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KellyJay,
I have to relate the Son's pre-creation eternal existence to the heart's desire of the Triune God to bring creatures of His universe into "sonship". (Namely human beings)
Going on with Romans 8 it so happened that the rise of Satan and the fall of man cannot thwart the eternal purpose of God to bring every part of our being into this sonship - spirit and soul and body.
"For the creation was made subject to vanity, not of its own will, but because of HIm who subjected it,
In hope that the creation itself will also be freed from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
For we know that the whole creation groans together and travails in plain together until now. And not only so, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit,
even we ourselves groan in ourselves, eagerly awaiting sonship, the redemption of our body." (Rom. 8:20-23)
From the inside out God is working to saturate our whole being with the life and nature of the Son of God. Our full salvation is sonship. That is when the life of the Son spreads out from our innermost being, through our soul, and out into our bodies.
Creation itself will be liberated from corruption first partially as the earlier overcomers arrive (during the millennium). And then totally as the rest catch up and mature (following the millennium).
You can see that to be chosen in the Son, the Beloved, must mean the Son of God's eternal pre-existence.
Now if someone were to object that this may prove the pre-creation of the universe Son but not an eternal pre-existing Son, I couldn't agree. The Word was with God and was God. (John 1:1).
I have more comments. This is good enough for this part.
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Why is your copying of other peoples work, without consistently crediting the source, not to be regarded as plagiarism?
Is ignorance your defense?
I don't need a defense. The only thing I don't always do that the publishers have requested is to indicate the date of the message. Sometimes that is not available. And I don't often do that, though I have made more attempt to do that recently.
Something is being taught which is true and I repeat it.
Who is the owner of the truth anyway? It is God's truth.
Of course I am happy for you all to raise the objection because I think the messages of Watchman Nee and Witness Lee should be much more closely listened to and studied.
You guys function to bring attention to those names. And I am happy about that. Our experience is that the more you whine about my referring or copying from messages of Nee and Lee the more the true seeking people will be inclined to find out what all the fuss is about.
So continue grumbling about me parroting or copying portions of their ministry. However, what I quote the most by FAR ... is the word of God, the Bible. You know that.
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Your premise of this thread has been holed below the waterline by myself several times, denying it doesn’t make it not true.
It is possible that some were impressed with your argument.
As for me, the eternal Son of God has far from been refuted by you.
But if Ghost or someone else of your atheist friends or even Christians, thought you made a successful case, that's fine with me.
I believe in the Triune God with the joy of experiencing Him.