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06 Jan 19
2 edits
You pray to God the Father separately from Jesus?!
"Separately" is a word YOU introduced into the discussion. I never uttered a word about "separately" or "separation" or "separate".
Being deliberately blind as a bat, you apparently didn't see the words "always to God".
I wrote: Sometime to the Father. Sometimes to the Son.
"Always to God."
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06 Jan 19
@divegeester
I enjoy the Divine "We". Jesus said "We" - He and the Father, would come and make an abode with the lovers of Jesus.
John 14:23.
06 Jan 19
@sonship saidWell that’s good, it’s all just banter of course.
@divegeester
I taunt you about your strange beliefs about aliens and eternal suffering and Jesus being glorified by the suffering and you praying to the different people of the trinity about made up fountains of blood and about your vanity.
If that's all you have taunt about there's no cause for concern on my part.
Your old sentimental exaggerations don't bother me.
06 Jan 19
@kellyjay saidDo you believe you might be thrown into the "Lake of Fire" for your "glaring faults"?
When we stand in judgment day the truth will be there, and all of our arguments
and words will show what we claimed and knew. None of us will have an excuse
so I'm not overly concern with another's faults, when mine are so glaring to me.
06 Jan 19
@sonship saidPraying to two different people in the Godhead is both strange and unscriptural as I have pointed out above. I have one God who is one person, the focus I have is solely on Jesus Christ as his name is above all names and is the only name by which we may approach God. Approaching God in any other way is erroneous. This is comprehensively demonstrable throughout scripture.
@divegeester
I enjoy the Divine "We". Jesus said "We" - He and the Father, would come and make an abode with the lovers of Jesus.
John 14:23.
06 Jan 19
@sonship saidI’m see you edited this as I was replying, I expect you remembered that I never claimed that the son of god was created.
@divegeester
When was the Son of God was created ? Did you answer that yet?
06 Jan 19
@sonship saidDoes divegeester risk "damnation" for not interpreting it the same way as you do?
With some who are ambiguous and for whom it is not easy to tell where they stand, if they ATTACK the revelation of the Triune God, I will spend some time to show them where they are wrong. Divegeester is such a person. If he were not so much on the attack against a trinitarian belief, I might not labor as much. But he INVITES it. He taunts Christians about it.
06 Jan 19
@fmf saidYou will not get a straight answer from sonship on this FMF. The fact is that the statement of belief on his own church’s website states categorially that in order to be saved (from the eternal suffering) one MUST accept and believe in the trinity doctrine. I do not of course, so according to sonships beliefs, I cannot be saved and therefore I will be condemned to hell.
Does divegeester risk "damnation" for not interpreting it the same way as you do?
As to why sonship resists being unequivocal on wether he subscribes to his own church’s statement of belief is a matter for deduction; there can be only a couple of reasons:
He either believes it and is ashamed to admit it, or, he rejects it but is unwilling to risk publically saying so.
06 Jan 19
@divegeester saidSuch are the perils of casting himself as a regurgitator of rote-learned doctrine.
You will not get a straight answer from sonship on this FMF. The fact is that the statement of belief on his own church’s website states categorially that in order to be saved (from the eternal suffering) one MUST accept and believe in the trinity doctrine. I do not of course, so according to sonships beliefs, I cannot be saved and therefore I will be condemned to hell. ...[text shortened]... eves it and is ashamed to admit it, or, he rejects it but is unwilling to risk publically saying so.
06 Jan 19
1 edit
@sonship saidDisagree
@divegeester
So the Son of God always was and always will be and thus the Son of God is eternal ? So the Son of God is eternal but the office/s of the Son of God are temporary ?
Disagree
God is one, revealed in different ways in different times.
Nothing has been added to the nature of God, he is changeless.
Jesus as a man is the “right arm laid bare”, revealed. It is the same person just a different aspect of him, of his nature.
For me the highest truths in this are:
God is one and He changes not, ever.
Therefore all other scriptures which indicate anything other than this high truth are being misinterpreted if they contradict it. Terms such as “we” “us”, Jesus praying to his father, Jesus being abandoned on the cross. These cannot contradict the higher truth that God is one. I do not need a non biblical man made construct (the trinity) to account for this. The bible tells us it is a mystery “the mystery of God in Christ”. I have no issue with this. I will always and without exception fall back on “hear oh Israel the Lord your God is one” as this is the higher truth.
So in my heart and mind I have this:
God is one and unchanging, ever
Every aspect of his person is eternal
Jesus appeared in the flesh on a certain day
On that day he became a son, and he became a father, but he is not a separate person “he is the invisible God made visible”
The higher truth that God is one and he is unchanging does not flinch.
But now we see this man Jesus and we then also see this dove decending and we feel compelled to explain it. Hence, the trinity. But it is error. God is one and unchanging.
What has changed is the focus and name given by which we are saved. Instead of a covenant of law of the name of Yahweh we have been given a new name of the same god to describe this new revelation of his eternalness, this Jesus, this God saves. Yeshua.
This is my position on the Godhead and has been for three decades.
Furthermore I suspect, although I have no scripture to support it, that when the son hands the kingdom over to the father we will be given another name to know him by.
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06 Jan 19
4 edits
@divegeester
One thing I notice about your response is that you permit yourself to be long winded and careful. When others write as much to make themselves clear you mock them as "waffling" and using "hairdryer" methods.
You also mock by asserting that no one is reading it anyway.
This hypocrisy you should stop employing.
God is one,
In the booklet The Beliefs and Practices of the Local Churches which you brought to my attention, concerning "Our Beliefs" a section says [my bolding]
The local churches believe that God is the only one Triune God—the Father, the Son, and the Spirit—co-existing equally from eternity to eternity (1 Tim. 2:5a, Matt. 28:19).
The local churches believe that the Son of God, even God Himself, became incarnated to be a man by the name of Jesus, born of the virgin Mary, that He might be our Redeemer and Savior (Jn. 1:1, 1:14, Matt. 1:23).
I assume that except for the word "Triune" you would probably be in agreement with the rest. Except you might also not agree with the phrase "co-existing equally from eternity to eternity".
Am I right?
06 Jan 19
@divegeester saidYour logic is flawed. You're ignoring what the scriptures teach in favor of what you think.
Disagree
Disagree
God is one, revealed in different ways in different times.
Nothing has been added to the nature of God, he is changeless.
Jesus as a man is the “right arm laid bare”, revealed. It is the same person just a different aspect of him, of his nature.
For me the highest truths in this are:
God is one and He changes not, ever.
Therefore all othe ...[text shortened]... that when the son hands the kingdom over to the father we will be given another name to know him by.
And you draw irrational conclusions based on a corrupt understanding of what the Bible teaches.
No body is saying that God isn't one God, or that God changes, or that God isn't eternal.
Making those comments does nothing to validate your argument. It's childish.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Anyone with a third grade education can see there's two Devine entities right there in that verse.
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
Oh, looky there. "He shall teach you.."
I think maybe you haven't been paying attention to Him.