The False teachings of christianity.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
We finally found it! Here is the explanation for the missing years!

And Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.

Amazing! It was there in the Bible the entire time, but we all somehow missed it!

Well thats vague and doesn't put his location anywhere at all...try again

Originally posted by Nicksten
The thing is that almost everyone else has a different mindset, thus they will tell you whats going on in their head about certain stuff that Jesus did in the time He lived on earth. I also agree with some of the other people here that you'll certainly laugh at these remarks.

The thing is, you need to read all the books you can find about Jesus, and that ...[text shortened]... t books and were to find them, but you could start with the Bible.

This just is my opinion.

This is proving to be a great question. Another non-answer.

Again I ask. Where was JC for 30 years? Claimed to be the most important person in the world, not much is known about him.
The stuff in the bible is from about his birth and from 30 to 33.
Cover up?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Vish, I accept that you believe what you're saying, but I have to say that you do come across as a little rude and arrogant. God knows I'm no christian (ha ha), but you can't just dismiss a faith that has persisted for as long as christianity or even islam in this manner. They may seem 'silly' or 'stupid' to you, but very many greater minds than yo ...[text shortened]... e ideas over the years. Perhaps some might think your beliefs 'childish nonsense' too?

Once all the great minds thought that if you sailed to the edge of the world, you would fall off.

Big is not best.

The whole world is under the spell of illusion and if you can palm off islam and christianity as the authority on spiritual truth, then that is the direct proof that this illusion is alive and well.

Vedanta is the only place to go, to make a start on your spiritual quest, and theres no place else that comes near the knowledge and truth of Vedanta......but be warned that it can be a mind field to navigate your way through the teachings of the Vedanta scripture, and the best place to start is...Srimad Bhagavatam by His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Srila Prapbhupada. ( 18.000 verses of spiritual reading) but you will surely need assistance in understanding much of the knowledge presented, if you are indoctrinated into mainstream world beliefs.

vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Once all the great minds thought that if you sailed to the edge of the world, you would fall off.

Big is not best.

The whole world is under the spell of illusion and if you can palm off islam and christianity as the authority on spiritual truth, then that is the direct proof that this illusion is alive and well.

Vedanta is the only place to go, t ...[text shortened]... h of the knowledge presented, if you are indoctrinated into mainstream world beliefs.

vishva

So the sole thing you can offer is a religious story by Sri Sukadeva Gosvami edited by Vasudeva (the so called “Lord” and father of Sri Krsna, what a rare bird among the theist doctrines) and told later by Suta Gosvami! Anyway...

“In the beginning of the creation”, says Suta Gosvami, “Lord first expanded Himself in the universal form of the puruṣa incarnation and manifested all the ingredients for the material creation”. So I have to conclude that before the “beginning of the creation” the so called “Lord” was keeping himself contained strictly in his non-manifested self; and at a given time he decided to be manifested by introducing at first Karma. In fact, regarding this matter Suta Gosvami says: “In the beginning of the material creation, that Absolute Personality of Godhead (Vasudeva), in His transcendental position, created the energies of cause and effect by His own internal energy.”
Therefore Gosvami claims that the so called “Lord” was (before the beginning of the creation) unborn and yet existent, so in this case he should be definitely existent in another spacetime, different than ours, otherwise he would not be existent at all. Gosvami adds that later, “in the beginning of the creation”, the “Lord” unleashed himself (he expanded in etc. etc.) and so his self took also, along with his previous unknown to us immaterial characteristics, the material and immaterial characteristics and thus the full form of the observer universe. So we have to believe blindly for starters that there are at least two spacetimes and at least two “creations” (the later ones emerging from the former ones respectively). And we have to believe blindly too that the later spacetime was the one in which the observer universe exists as we know it. Of course all these beliefs are a trivial mambo-jambo and thus they are neither worse nor better than any other common religious doctrine.

Now, child of a noble family vishvahetu, I ask you: when and by which means did the so called “Lord” informed you in person about this situation that you consider factual? If he did, prey tell the story. But if the so called “Lord” informed you not in person, obviously you don’t have a clue on your own and you just follow Suta Gosvami’s footprints because you find plausible his religious beliefs. If this is indeed the case, what makes you think that Gosvami’s religious beliefs are the “sole truth” whilst the other religious beliefs of the other religious personages of the other religions are not?
😵

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Well thats vague and doesn't put his location anywhere at all...try again

Now locale is sacrosanct? Weird...

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I would actually like to see this theory DISproven! Where did christ get his knowledge from ? Was he born with it?
I am very curious about what happened to christ between 1 and 30.

As have scholars for centuries, and we ain't likely to find out soon. But there has NEVER been a scholar who held that He studied Venetta, or Venita or Vendetta or whatevertheheck Kibbles and Bits has come up with this time.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
As have scholars for centuries, and we ain't likely to find out soon. But there has NEVER been a scholar who held that He studied Venetta, or Venita or Vendetta or whatevertheheck Kibbles and Bits has come up with this time.

Are you sure?

to Black Beetle

You dont have to believe blindly, bcause your already blind by the illusion of this world, and your only experience is what your senses tell you (and there limited)

What would you know about anything outside your direct exsperience (nothing) so when Vedanta talks of things outside your experience, then you cannot understand it with your small brain, so you cannot actually say its mumbo jumbo, unless you could percieve it which you cant.

Persons on the spiritual path who have purified their mind and heart, can understand what is being said, because they have achieved sufficient insight, but my friend if you dont have this insight, then it will be mumbo jumbo to you, and will remain mumbo jumbo, until you are willing to give up your envious nature towards god, and apply yourself to the spiritual purification process, so you may develope the insight your desperately lacking.

The first thing the student must do to be purified, is stop meat eating, because eating meat will poison your spiritual senses, and you will never develope insight.

vishva

I think most here believe there is something beyond this reality. We know this reality is more than our senses tell us. Atoms and all things we can't see. Realms and powers and even beings. Other dimensions. What holds this universe together? Why does it not just fly apart? What binds the atom together? Most here are not dumb and blind at all in that sense. God maybe? 🙂



Manny

Originally posted by vishvahetu
to Black Beetle

You dont have to believe blindly, bcause your already blind by the illusion of this world, and your only experience is what your senses tell you (and there limited)

What would you know about anything outside your direct exsperience (nothing) so when Vedanta talks of things outside your experience, then you cannot understand it with y ...[text shortened]... se eating meat will poison your spiritual senses, and you will never develope insight.

vishva

Child of a noble family vishvahetu,
One has to honour one's teachers and one's tradition, but one has to now in person what exactly one knows and what exactly one ignores. If your "insight" cannot product justified ideas and solid theories of reality you are not insightful but delusional. Suta Gosvami's primal religious belief fails from the very first verse of the scripture you accept as "the sole truth" -and when I say "it fails" I mean it is not philosophically justified, it is just another trivial religious belief amongst many.
So, kindly please do share with me your insight throught transforming your precious pieces of inner awareness into solid explanations. Until that time, since you did not answer my questions and it is obvious that your sixth faces serious difficulties with my earlier comment, I will rephrase it and I will offer you the following variation so that you could probably help me to understand your beliefs (Suta Gosvami's beliefs, that is).

Suta Gosvami claims that the so called “Lord” was (before the beginning of the creation) unborn yet existent. Where was he existent? In order to accept Gosvami’s idea I must accept that, before his “expanding”, the so called “Lord” had no characteristics that could be identified within the observer universe because the observer universe was by that time non-manifested due to the fact that the universe was not yet created by him.
Therefore I am now forced to evaluate the following two forced possibilities: the first is that there was being at least one primal non-manifested to us spacetime somewhere out of the observer universe in which the so called “Lord” existed unmanifested and contained strictly in his non observable self -so I have to believe that the “Lord” was by that time non-existent in our observable spacetime and that “later on” he expanded in the given spacetime he created for his convenience, ie he expanded in our observable spacetime. However this hypothesis must be dismissed, because in such a case the observer universe would be definitely just a part of a larger multi-universe (Kosmos) and not the “universal creation”, therefore Suta Gosvami would never be justified to preach about a “universal creation” since this creation would be merely a part of a Kosmos that was already existent. But this is out of order because for the sake of the, say, conversation, I have to accept that Gosvami is not delusional.
Now, since Gosvami is supposed to be, say, frank, the sole possibility that remains is that the so called “Lord” expanded “in the beginning” into his own creation out of “no spacetime”. Thus I have to accept blindly that the “Lord’s” one and only own creation (the observer universe) is identical to the self of the so called “Lord” and that, therefore, the self of the “Lord” was not manifested in full before the creation of the observer universe within the multi-universe. But in this case too the so called “Lord” cannot be considered the creator of the multi-universe (Kosmos), therefore Gosvami must be considered seriously derailed.

Well?
😵

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Look, Ive explained before, how christianity and islam are just fabrications by dishonest or misguided persons with their personal agendas to fill, (mostly power and control over the stupid masses)

Anyway let the bible hang itself, and it can do this quiet easily by asking the reader to accept the nonsense it teaches,....for example, just get your bibl ...[text shortened]... ch that a person has one life only (more nonsense)

I could give many more examples.

vishva

...and if you dont end up throwing the book in the bin after that, then you can label yourself fool number one and an insincere person...

Are you making the claim that not throwing the Bible in the bin imbues one with the potential (should they so wish) to label themself "fool number one"?

Surely they can do that even if they do throw it in the bin...though I dunno why they'd want to. 😕

Originally posted by karoly aczel
This is proving to be a great question. Another non-answer.

Again I ask. Where was JC for 30 years? Claimed to be the most important person in the world, not much is known about him.
The stuff in the bible is from about his birth and from 30 to 33.
Cover up?

You get what you get, you see as much as of His life as does your soul good.
Kelly

Originally posted by black beetle
Child of a noble family vishvahetu,
One has to honour one's teachers and one's tradition, but one has to now in person what exactly one knows and what exactly one ignores. If your "insight" cannot product justified ideas and solid theories of reality you are not insightful but delusional. Suta Gosvami's primal religious belief fails from the very first ...[text shortened]... iverse (Kosmos), therefore Gosvami must be considered seriously derailed.

Well?
😵

Before creation means material creation, and material creation goes through cycles of manifest and unmanifest, but while that is happening the lord is eternally existent in the infinite spiritual realm, beyond our cognition.

When the material creation is manifest, then the Lord enters (born) into that manifest material energy into every atom in His Visnu form.

I am really not going to exsplain the other 499.999 verses with you, unless you change your challenging negative attitude.

Your Buddhist logic has seriously put you on a mind bender, and your approach to Vedanta is flawed from the beginning, because your trying to concieve the infinite, with your finite defective brain, and as Iv,e said before, a person has to purify their mind and heart to begin with....a good start would be to stop eating meat.

vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Once all the great minds thought that if you sailed to the edge of the world, you would fall off.

Big is not best.

The whole world is under the spell of illusion and if you can palm off islam and christianity as the authority on spiritual truth, then that is the direct proof that this illusion is alive and well.

Vedanta is the only place to go, t ...[text shortened]... h of the knowledge presented, if you are indoctrinated into mainstream world beliefs.

vishva

Ah, Hare Krishna eh? Well, good luck with that. Personally I find credibility issues in vedantic scripture, but hey, at least your lot have a decent diet.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Before creation means material creation, and material creation goes through cycles of manifest and unmanifest, but while that is happening the lord is eternally existent in the infinite spiritual realm, beyond our cognition.

When the material creation is manifest, then the Lord enters (born) into that manifest material energy into every atom in His Vi ...[text shortened]... rify their mind and heart to begin with....a good start would be to stop eating meat.

vishva

A good start for you would be probably to stop being blindly religious and to start evaluating your blind beliefs. If the case is indeed as you described (you said: but while that is happening the lord is eternally existent in the infinite spiritual realm, beyond our cognition), then how did Suta Gosvami's primal belief (that stays permanently beyond our cognition) became a part of your personal cognition?

Furthermore, child of a noble family vishvahetu, since you appear still incapable to understand my previous questions although they are quite simple, I will rephrase them and I will give you another variation: not the slightest bit of the observer universe could ever exist prior to the existence of its characteristics because, if the observer universe existed prior to its characteristics, it would be without characteristics and thus it would be strictly the “Lord” itself as Suta Gosvami claims. But according to Suta Gosvami the observer universe is the “material body” of the so called “Lord” and therefore the “Lord” should be existent, and thus somehow manifested, before his material manifestation as the observer universe. But Gosvami points out that the “Lord first expanded Himself in the universal form of the purusa incarnation”, and this means that “earlier” his existence was strictly immaterial and not material whilst “after” it became both immaterial and material. This means that, according to Gosvami, I am forced to accept blindly that the so called “Lord” is in fact identical to the observer universe as we know it (and identical to all the immaterial and material characteristics of the observer universe) because there was no other way for him to be manifested in a fully materialistic way, so he was indeed manifested in the full form of the observer universe out of a non-manifested status of existence (out of, say, a condition similar to the point singularity). And this is indeed the case, because Suta Gosvami points out that the “Lord” had no characteristics prior to his observable characteristics and thus prior to the observable characteristics of the observer universe and yet he was existent and non-manifested and non-observed by us.
So now, if we accept that an entity without characteristics (exactly like the entity Gosvami names “Lord” before its expand in the form of the purusa incarnation) was not existent “in the beginning” in the material world due to the fact that before “the beginning of the material creation” it had no manifested characteristics, we should presume that its characteristics extend to the unmanifested realm. And this is pure mambo-jumbo too because you cannot explain how and by what means you are aware of this “fact”. But if you are aware of this fact, prey tell the story in detail.

Well?
😵