The Fate of Innocent Unbelievers

Originally posted by menace71
Hebrews 6New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Peril of Falling Away
6 Therefore leaving the [a]elementary teaching about the [b]Christ, let us press on to [c]maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal ...[text shortened]... ose [f]to being cursed, and [g]it ends up being burned.

What is this speaking of ?


Manny

Good question.

Welcome back Manny,

Originally posted by Rajk999
The pastor said they will be tormented for eternity.

So because of a deity's failure to communicate, said deity condemns billions of people to torture forever.

Lovely god you have there.

I think I will continue to believe in people. Your insane god sucks big time.

Originally posted by Rajk999
There are some that claim to know Christ with their mouth but deny Christ with their evil works.

there are some that accept the teachings of Christ by their works although they dont know of Him.

We will have to wait and see which group finds favour with Christ.

This is not taught in scripture,

"there are some that accept the teachings of Christ by their works although they dont know of Him."

We do not earn our righteous before God through our works, and Jesus Himself said
again those that don't believe in Him are condemn already, That statement is not in
agreement with Jesus' words and other scripture.

There is no denying the believers in Christ are going to be doing good works and where
you see these works acknowledged you are looking at believers works. No where do you
see those condemned being accepted in scripture outside of Christ. If they are
condemned already then they need Jesus to be saved. Jesus was quiet clear in other
passages that He told others to depart because He didn't know them.

John 3: 18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Originally posted by Rajk999
There are some that claim to know Christ with their mouth but deny Christ with their evil works.

there are some that accept the teachings of Christ by their works although they dont know of Him.

We will have to wait and see which group finds favour with Christ.

You did not answer my question directly either, I said what if their religion denies Jesus?

Originally posted by KellyJay
This is not taught in scripture,

"there are some that accept the teachings of Christ by their works although they dont know of Him."...

I take that to mean this is not taught in your church. It is in the bible. Here is Christ explaining how he will judge :

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. (Mat 25:34-36)

These people who do the following:
- feed the hungry
- give the thristy a drink of water
- take in strangers
- clothe the naked
- visit the sick and those imprisoned.

These people are the ones that Christ knows, because they cared for Him and Christ said that he will give these people eternal life.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You did not answer my question directly either, I said what if their religion denies Jesus?

Christ is not interested in religion. Christ is interested in the conduct of people as individuals. If a man lives charitably Christ knows him and will reward him. Let Christ judge.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I take that to mean this is not taught in your church. It is in the bible. Here is Christ explaining how he will judge :

[i]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink ...[text shortened]... t knows, because they cared for Him and Christ said that he will give these people eternal life.

Yep, those belong to Him, they were doing what He commanded.
You cannot show me where it says, even among the unbelievers who did good works!
I can show you where those that don't believe in Jesus Christ, has Jesus saying they are
condemn already. Works alone will not save you, but the gift of God, which is what
according to scripture?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ is not interested in religion. Christ is interested in the conduct of people as individuals. If a man lives charitably Christ knows him and will reward him. Let Christ judge.

I should take it than that you cannot back up your claim?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I should take it than that you cannot back up your claim?

And of course, YOU can back up YOUR claims.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So because of a deity's failure to communicate, said deity condemns billions of people to torture forever.

Lovely god you have there.

I think I will continue to believe in people. Your insane god sucks big time.

Look at the later part of this video for an answer to your question. It would take me too much time to type it all out for you. It starts at about the 20 minute point where the answers to the mail bag are given.

Tiktaalik and Time Travel

YouTube

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yep, those belong to Him, they were doing what He commanded.
You cannot show me where it says, even among the unbelievers who did good works!
I can show you where those that don't believe in Jesus Christ, has Jesus saying they are
condemn already. Works alone will not save you, but the gift of God, which is what
according to scripture?

There will always be those who will want to get what they do not deserve or those who believe in getting a free and easy ride into Gods Kingdom by doing nothing whatsoever ... except maybe talk. Christ is not interested in talk or in professing ones faith or in talking about charity. Christ is going to reward those who DO IT.

The parable of the Good Samaritan deals with this and covers the following issues :
- the Samaritan did not know who Christ was.
- the Samaritan acted out of compassion for someone in need and showed brotherly love
- the priest and Levite claimed to know God but in their actions they denied God
Along with Matt 25 both passages demonstrate:
- the Samaritan helped Christ .. healed him and took him to safety
- the priest and Levite turned away from Christ.

Christ knows the Good Samaritan, but does not know the priest and Levite.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I should take it than that you cannot back up your claim?

To back up my claim I would have to quote all the teachings of Christ. In all of the recorded teachings of Christ in the Bible about 99% of it is concerned with the following:
- Good Works and Brotherly Love
- Keeping away from sin
- Keeping away from worldliness

Precious little about religion or churches etc.

Originally posted by menace71
Hebrews 6New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Peril of Falling Away
6 Therefore leaving the [a]elementary teaching about the [b]Christ, let us press on to [c]maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal ...[text shortened]... ose [f]to being cursed, and [g]it ends up being burned.

What is this speaking of ?


Manny

Here is one explanation, but I think there are more...

Can it be possible to be a partaker of the Holy Ghost" without being born again?

The answer to that question is, that it is quite possible. Only a true believer can be indwelt by the Holy Spirit, but all within the circle of Christian profession, whether truly converted or not, partake or share in the benefits of the presence of the Spirit. A man may be enlightened without being saved. He may taste the heavenly gift without receiving it. He may taste the good word of God without digesting it in his inward parts. He may share in "the powers of the world to come." (i.e. miraculous powers) without experiencing the real power of the world to come.

The terrible case of Judas Iscariot furnishes us with an illustration of this very thing. He walked for over three years in the company of the Son of God. What floods of light fell upon his path! What tastes he had of the heavenly gift and of the good Word of God! It could not be said of course that he was a partaker of the Holy Ghost, but he was a partaker of the benefits of the presence of Christ upon earth; and he shared, in common with the other apostles, in those miraculous powers which are here called "the powers of the world to come." He was one of the twelve to whom the Lord gave power over unclean spirits, and of whom it is said, "They cast out many devils and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them." (Mark 6:13). Yet the miracle-working Judas was all the while a "son of perdition" and not a saved man at all. He fell away and it proved impossible to renew him unto repentance.

You will notice that the word here, is "impossible" and not "improbable." This one word is quite sufficient to show that there is no support in this scripture for the idea of a true believer falling away and being lost for ever. ALL those who "fall away" in the sense spoken of in this passage are for ever lost. It is not that they may be, but that they must be; and there would not be a single ray of hope for any back-slider, did it refer to such.

It refers then to the sin of apostasy — a sin to which the Jew, who embraced the Christian religion without being really converted, was peculiarly liable. By turning back to his ancient and worn out religion, thereby utterly condemning and disowning the Lord Jesus, he proved himself to be utterly bad and worthless ground. (Hebrews Commentary Notes)
http://preceptaustin.org/hebrews_66.htm

Originally posted by sonhouse
And of course, YOU can back up YOUR claims.

When I make one yes I will, and when I say something is a matter of faith, that is as far
as I can take it.

Originally posted by Rajk999
To back up my claim I would have to quote all the teachings of Christ. In all of the recorded teachings of Christ in the Bible about 99% of it is concerned with the following:
- Good Works and Brotherly Love
- Keeping away from sin
- Keeping away from worldliness

Precious little about religion or churches etc.

Show me a religion that denies Christ that if the people in it deny Christ they will be
accepted by God through their work!

How can one deny Jesus yet be saved by Him when Jesus says those that have not
believed in Him are condemned?

You give those people outside of Jesus more grace than those that have accepted Jesus
and yet have stumbled.

You believe there are those outside of Christ that are sinless so their good works will
make God accept them? If they have sinned than they are sinners are they not, why
would good works save them when scripture teaches that we are not saved by works?

I am not talking about religion or churches, but Jesus Christ He is the only one that
matters here! Yet you claim he is not necessary by your statements that people can be
accepted by God just through their good works.