28 Jul 15
Originally posted by checkbaiterWise man say:
I did. But I disagree with the verdict. I like Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland and John Hagee. I don't have to agree with every thing they believe, but they all have some good preaching material.
I always say, "eat the fish and spit out the bones". It is a good rule to live by.
Sometimes swallow the bones. You may learn something not possible from the fish.
(Wise man though had not accounted for Hinds).
28 Jul 15
Originally posted by Rajk999a) Jesus was not a Christian.
Christianity for me anyhow and for Christ Im sure, is about following the teachings and doctrine of Christ. It is not about the whole Bible. It is not about evolving. If it were evolving then the words of Christ which He thought was timeless would expire over time. Then it would no longer be Christianity.
b) Jesus taught no doctrine.
c) You've missed a few really fundamental tenets of the Christian religion.
d) All of the above.
28 Jul 15
Originally posted by Rajk999The sermon on the Mount is an anecdotal collection of ethical sayings. There is no indication in the Sermon on the Mount (or anywhere else in the gospels, for that matter), that Jesus thought of himself as founding a new religion separate from Judaism. Judaism already had a doctrine and Jesus did not propose to change it (verse 17: "I am come not to break the Law but to fulfill it" ).
Its part of the doctrine of Christ.
Your statement that Christ preached no doctrine is false.
Nowhere in the Sermon on the Mount is there the slightest indication of any of the doctrinal issues which distinguished and ultimately separated Christianity from Judaism: immaculate conception, incarnation, Jesus's death as atonement for original sin and the redemption of mankind, bodily resurrection, the trinity, transubstantiation, etc. etc. etc. Indeed, the idea that faith in Jesus is the path of salvation is not mentioned at all in the Sermon on the Mount; Jesus says to put into practice the ethical maxims he has related, not to believe anything. Verse 24: “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. ... 26: But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.”
This is antithetical to Christian doctrine, which is that works are futile ("vanity of vanities" ), that faith alone is the path to salvation. That's what Christian doctrine, says.
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28 Jul 15
Originally posted by Rajk999If you understood the love of God,
Except Christians of course. God permits Christians the privilege of sinning all they like. Remember you said: [b]Today a Christian can turn from God and live lawlessly and selfishly without his everlasting life being in jeopardy [/b]
If you understood the Grace of God,
If you understood how much God loved you,
You would live more holy by accident than you ever could on purpose.
28 Jul 15
Originally posted by moonbusDo you really need me to list the dozen or so times that Christ broke and flouted the Law of Moses? Was not Saul who was correctly applying the Law of Moses and persecuting those who were breaking that Law, stopped dead in his tracks by Jesus himself?
The sermon on the Mount is an anecdotal collection of ethical sayings. There is no indication in the Sermon on the Mount (or anywhere else in the gospels, for that matter), that Jesus thought of himself as founding a new religion separate from Judaism. Judaism already had a doctrine and Jesus did not propose to change it (verse 17: "I am come not to break th ...[text shortened]... ties" ), that faith alone is the path to salvation. That's what Christian doctrine, says.
Do you understand what this passage from Christ says?
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. (Mat 26:27-28)
A New Testamant is a New Covenent. Christ death and resurrection brought into play a brand new era in the lives of all people .. not just Jews. The prophets foretold it
Jer_31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
The Apostles explained it
Heb_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb_8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Heb_12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
The New Covenent is better and IT REPLACES THE LAW OF MOSES. It has better promises and just one rule:
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Gal 5:14)
And all the world will be judged by that one requirement.
28 Jul 15
Originally posted by checkbaiterRead the whole thing !
If you understood the love of God,
If you understood the Grace of God,
If you understood how much God loved you,
You would live more holy by accident than you ever could on purpose.
Ever come across this passage?
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. (Rom 11:22)
God is not nice to evildoers. Hope you are not one.
28 Jul 15
Originally posted by Rajk999When Jesus said I come not to break the Law but to fulfill it, the Law he meant was the Torah, no other. I stand by the claim that Jesus never said he was founding a new religion; he insisted that the Law of Moses was still valid and still to be obeyed in every particular--with one crucial nuance: whatever you do, do it from a certain motive (namely, love for God, love for thy neighbor, love for oneself). The Pharisees had a reputation for just going through the motions, that is, for obeying the Law but with no love or gratitude in their hearts. That was what Jesus came to correct.
Do you really need me to list the dozen or so times that Christ broke and flouted the Law of Moses? Was not Saul who was correctly applying the Law of Moses and persecuting those who were breaking that Law, stopped dead in his tracks by Jesus himself?
Do you understand what this passage from Christ says?
[i]And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gav ...[text shortened]... eighbour as thyself. (Gal 5:14)
And all the world will be judged by that one requirement.[/b]
28 Jul 15
Originally posted by moonbusWhere did CHrist insist that the Law of Moses was still valid?
When Jesus said I come not to break the Law but to fulfill it, the Law he meant was the Torah, no other. I stand by the claim that Jesus never said he was founding a new religion; he insisted that the Law of Moses was still valid and still to be obeyed in every particular--with one crucial nuance: whatever you do, do it from a certain motive (namely, love fo ...[text shortened]... ying the Law but with no love or gratitude in their hearts. That was what Jesus came to correct.
28 Jul 15
1 edit
BTW, your previous post quoting Jer_31:31 and Hebrews demonstrates something which does properly come under the heading of "doctrine": it is Christian doctrine that the whole of the OT is one long foretelling of the coming of Jesus, with the corresponding re-interpretation of every OT prophecy, every mention of wood becomes a reference to the cross, etc. etc. Of course, this is not Judaic doctrine.