The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins

Originally posted by scottishinnz
It's the one in the OT. Do you deny he did any of those things?

I deny He is unjust in anything He did/does at any time.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I deny He is unjust in anything He did/does at any time.
Kelly

What about killing the first-born. What had they done to deserve it?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
I don't.

Tell me, though. What part of killing the firstborn was "good"?

I really want to say something here that makes some sense.
If you are going to isolate an act of God out of it's context and not within the larger picture, you are going to stumble right over the truth and not even know it. On it's surface, the atheist is going to balk at a God that kills innocent children. That's how the argument is framed. God is a killer of innocent children. Or at least that's what someone who doesn't believe in God is going to think. And if that atheist believes in evolution, he is going to think God is an invention of a primitive being. Once the mind is on that tract it is virtually impossible to change it.
But assume for a moment that God had created man in a perfect form and state. But something went terribly wrong, and now God has to bring man back to himself. Is what God has done unjustified?

There are many examples from human history how lives were sacrificed for the benefit others. Both forced and heroic.

Originally posted by josephw
Everyone knows that the bible can be made to say anything. And it is.
But it is intellectually dishonest to label God with those attributes and characteristics that can only be applied to man.

God is good. Man is bad. It's that simple. Do you think I am God's apologist? Nothing about God as told in the bible is acceptable to an atheist. All I can tell y ...[text shortened]... understanding is biased out of control, and is narrow minded.

Don't take that personally.

God is good. Man is bad.

You've just summed up the reason for my atheism. This pathetic notion that somehow we humans are not worthy, or that we have some innate evil nature.
Absolute crap.
I am not bad. I am not evil.
I may do bad things, I may even do evil things. But I am who I am. A human being with virtues and faults all jammed packed together.
I reject your view of the world and celebrate humans. We are good and bad.
God does not exist.

Originally posted by amannion
God is good. Man is bad.

You've just summed up the reason for my atheism. This pathetic notion that somehow we humans are not worthy, or that we have some innate evil nature.
Absolute crap.
I am not bad. I am not evil.
I may do bad things, I may even do evil things. But I am who I am. A human being with virtues and faults all jammed packed together.
I reject your view of the world and celebrate humans. We are good and bad.
God does not exist.

"God does not exist."

This must be the greatest lie ever told.
God is the only rational explanation for the existence of anything.
All other "theories" for existence is pure fiction.

Originally posted by josephw
"God does not exist."

This must be the greatest lie ever told.
God is the only rational explanation for the existence of anything.
All other "theories" for existence is pure fiction.

Ah yes, the rationality of God.
Now that's an oxymoron of biblical scale ...

Originally posted by amannion
Ah yes, the rationality of God.
Now that's an oxymoron of biblical scale ...

And "there is no God" is rational?

Originally posted by josephw
And "there is no God" is rational?

I'm not sure what you're asking.
By rational I mean that we can arrive at some conclusion through the use of reason and logical argument. Are you claiming that you can do this to arrive at the existence of god?
If you can, please fill us all in, because theologians have been trying for centuries and no one's done it yet. You may just be the first!

On the there is no God thing - I don't claim my atheist belief to be rational. Despite what others may say in these threads, I think atheism is as irrational as any other belief.
Yet I hold it nonetheless as you hold to yours.
I do so because it makes sense to my view of the world. I do so because I can't stand the alternative. I do so because I do not want to exist in a world that includes your supernatural god.

Originally posted by amannion
I'm not sure what you're asking.
By rational I mean that we can arrive at some conclusion through the use of reason and logical argument. Are you claiming that you can do this to arrive at the existence of god?
If you can, please fill us all in, because theologians have been trying for centuries and no one's done it yet. You may just be the first!

On ive. I do so because I do not want to exist in a world that includes your supernatural god.

"I do so because I do not want to exist in a world that includes your supernatural god."

I guess we are going to chase each other back and forth between threads. lol

I can hardly bring myself to say this on account of it is going to sound bad, but you do exist in a world that includes God. It looks like you are the one who is deluded. Scary thought, no? I tried to put a smiley face here but it didn't work for some reason.

😉😉😉 I guess it did work.

Originally posted by josephw
I really want to say something here that makes some sense.
If you are going to isolate an act of God out of it's context and not within the larger picture, you are going to stumble right over the truth and not even know it. On it's surface, the atheist is going to balk at a God that kills innocent children. That's how the argument is framed. God is a kille ...[text shortened]... rom human history how lives were sacrificed for the benefit others. Both forced and heroic.

Come now. Your God is supposedly a perfect. omnipotent, omniscient being. Killing those children was not necessary for such a being.

Likewise, why did God boast about being jealous and vengeful?

Originally posted by josephw
"God does not exist."

This must be the greatest lie ever told.
God is the only rational explanation for the existence of anything.
All other "theories" for existence is pure fiction.

Why?

Originally posted by josephw
"I do so because I do not want to exist in a world that includes your supernatural god."

I guess we are going to chase each other back and forth between threads. lol

I can hardly bring myself to say this on account of it is going to sound bad, but you do exist in a world that includes God. It looks like you are the one who is deluded. Scary thought, no ...[text shortened]... to put a smiley face here but it didn't work for some reason.

😉😉😉 I guess it did work.

Very scary.
Probably as scary as the thought that you might be deluded.
But I can laugh it off because as you know our beliefs are very firmly grounded. You can throw doubt on mine, I do it all the time, but my faith remains pretty solid, as I suspect yours does after my efforts.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Come now. Your God is supposedly a perfect. omnipotent, omniscient being. Killing those children was not necessary for such a being.

Likewise, why did God boast about being jealous and vengeful?

As smart as you are, you either don't get it at all, or you do, and simply argue your case because you are an atheist.

Do you think Pharaoh would have let God's people go if God had asked nicely?

And by definition an omniscient God doesn't make mistakes.
Don't you think that maybe you are wrong.

Originally posted by amannion
Very scary.
Probably as scary as the thought that you might be deluded.
But I can laugh it off because as you know our beliefs are very firmly grounded. You can throw doubt on mine, I do it all the time, but my faith remains pretty solid, as I suspect yours does after my efforts.

Let's keep trying though. We may hit on something that may scare both of us. 🙂

Originally posted by josephw
Let's keep trying though. We may hit on something that may scare both of us. 🙂

I'm always up for it ...