Originally posted by @rajk999I've given you passages of text for the points I have made. I have pointed out to you
The haters are people like you KJ.
YOU ... You have twisted the Bible completely out of shape.
You have taken the word of God and made it into a false doctrine.
Here is the truth from the Bible:
God hates sin and loves righteousness.
God is battling Satan from Genesis to Revelation
All righteousness is of God
All sin is of the Devil.
God sent his ...[text shortened]... ous is nonsense.
[b]The most hatred promoted in the world is from the Christian community[/b]
where you and Jesus are at odds, and what did you do, twisted it completely out of
shape to save your doctrine and ignore Jesus' words, He clearly said He would deny any
if we denied Him, Atheist deny Jesus, then they will not be accepted! I don't think you
want to imply now Jesus lies! You put works before Jesus' words, you put works before
all scripture that is doesn't back up your claims about works! Ignoring scripture on God's
Spirit including those that say if we don't have God's Spirit we do not belong to God. That
seems to be a very important passage if you ask me.
Matthew 10:32-34 English Standard Version (ESV)
32 So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, 33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
I can back up my views about the Holy Spirit, here is a small handful of scriptures that
go to that topic.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Acts 5:32
And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
Acts 15:8
And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,
Romans 5:5
and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
Romans 8:9
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Romans 8:14
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?
2 Corinthians 5:5
He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
-Removed-Its scripture, you can be sicken by it even to your core it will not change anything! You
want to call God cruel and a unimaginably depraved that is up to you. Hell was not made
for us, but many of us are going there, more than are not I'm sorry to say. This is no
different than another conversation I had with someone, I don't get to pick and choose
what is to my liking as if that were the scale of truth. My likes and dislikes are not the
scale of right and wrong, or truth and life. I dare say I'm pretty sure you even knew the
answer I was going to give when you asked the question since I've stated this here more
than once.
Matthew 25:40-42 English Standard Version (ESV)
40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
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-Removed-
Because it’s incongruent with scripture generally but specifically for example John 3:16, it is illogical and amoral. Burning some alive is brutally horrendous, keeping them alive for eternity so they can suffer the agony forever is monstrous.
How much of what you read as the words of Jesus do you regard as authentically His words ? Do you believe Jesus also spoke verses 14 and 15 along with verse 16?
Look at the three verses together and decide.
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, (v.14)
That everyone who believes into Him may have eternal life. (v.15)
For God so loved the world the He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone who believes into Him would not perish, but have eternal life. (v.16)
I believe that the brass serpent lifted on a pole refers to Jesus being lifted up on the cross of His execution.
God so loved the world that He gave what was of the utmost of value to HIm - His only begotten Son. The most precious One to God. He was in fact God Himself come to us.
His death was viewed by God as Satan being judged.
He so loved the world that He came, He gave God as a man to be monsterously judged as Satan himself the source of all evil and rebellions against God.
You show a great deal of sympathy for eternally condemned sinners. As I share that horror, though you don't think that I do.
But I think you do not have any equivalent regard that God so loved that God, for all we are ABLE to comprehend, became as Satan - judged on the cross. He sinless - became sin that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
So I said you indicate to me that you don't realize to what extent God went in His truth of John 3:16.
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As for being tortured alive, what I read was that the DEAD stood before God to be judged. There is some kind of existence for the lost, but it is not living.
Yes, I have to believe that something ultimately dreadful awaits those who spurn the love which caused the only begotten Son to be lifted up and judged as Satan himself on your behalf, on my behalf.
So I don't agree with "illogical" eternal condemnation nor "amoral" eternal condemnation.
In my sense of dread and awe I have to include the horrendous and monstrous offense of rejecting the God who became in a form to be judged on my behalf as Satan, the serpent lifted up on a pole in the wilderness.
You seem to have no feeling for the extent the Ultimate Life and Eternal Goodness went that we be justified - reconciled to Eternal Truth - Eternal Love - Eternal Holiness, Glory, and Righteousness.
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up that everyone who believes into Him may have eternal life." (vs. 14,15)
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Yes God hated to the point that the HATED sin was judged in Christ on His cross. He died in the form of the ancient Serpent.
He, the Son of Man was lifted up as a judged poisonous serpent that whoever would believe this judged Son of Man was God's only Son, would be justified unto eternal life.
In the Son of Man lifted up on His cross we see BOTH the hatred of God towards sin and the love of God towards the world.
"Him who did not know sin He made sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Cor. 5:21)
God incarnate as the Son of God - the Son of Man, who knew NO sin- God made Him sin on the sinners' behalf, that we who know and love sinning might become "the righteousness of God in Him."
To what extent the Eternal God went to save us from the rebellion.
No, I don't see eternal punishment of those who forever refuse to be reconciled to such a God as "illogical" or "amoral".
I see it as they get what they want, an existence without God forever.
How then can God communicate to us that that will be more than dreadful ? A "lake of fire" seems to do the communicating.
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-Removed-You have great sympathy for eternally lost unbelievers.
I also do though you don't think I do.
But I consider the Son of Man - the only begotten Son - Whom God gave because He so loved the world - the most valuable One God has - given to become sin on our behalf, that we sinners might be positioned to be the very righteousness of God in Him.
So I said WHO it was who died on that cross under divine judgment, you may not realize but under appreciate what happened there.