@philokalia saidSo whether slavery was a moral atrocity or whether it was morally sound was simply a matter for the interpretation of "the church fathers and Saints"? Is that all you have on this?
So, the prevailing attitude towards masters being kind to their slaves, as it is stated in the Bible, is oriented towards the philosophy that the slaves themselves should be freed out of the kindness of the masters, as it has been interpreted by the church fathers and Saints who have supported these efforts.
@fmf saidPhilokalia, I'd actually prefer a straightforward answer to this. I am not asking about "the prevailing attitude" towards slavery amongst some church leaders and how slavery in Christendom was able to persist for the better part of 2,000 years after Jesus lived. I am specifically asking you where in the scriptures does it talk about a "trajectory... towards the abolition of slavery"? Which verses?
Where does the Bible talk about this "trajectory... towards the abolition of slavery"?
@philokalia saidOK, so to get back to this. You feel "personally insulted" by something that happened to a cathedral in the C15th - because the building had belonged to a Christian denomination that you joined recently, more than 500 years after the events happened. I hear what you are saying. The question is this: do you also feel "personally insulted" by the fact there was STILL slavery in your country in the C17th and C18th and even as recently as in the C19th?
I am an Orthodox Christian and I can say that this is a personal insult and a travesty.
@fmf saidDo you intend to have the word trajectory included in this?
Philokalia, I'd actually prefer a straightforward answer to this. I am not asking about "the prevailing attitude" towards slavery amongst some church leaders and how slavery in Christendom was able to persist for the better part of 2,000 years after Jesus lived. I am specifically asking you where in the scriptures does it talk about a "trajectory... towards the abolition of slavery"? Which verses?
-Removed-What point, exactly?
You guys are talking about a couple of unrelated things -- one of which is the basis for your moral outrage, and the other is how it is handled in the Bible and by Church authorities a long time ago.
There's no single point being clearly discussed that you have indicated I should reply to.
@philokalia saidYou're being very evasive. You can propose whatever context you want. You can define atrocity as you see fit.
Without any context, many things seem like "moral atrocities."
@philokalia saidNo. But quibbling about the word like this is just a dodge. What I am getting at with regards to your appeal to "church fathers and Saints" and the historical reality of slavery is pretty obvious. You are either being evasive for some reason or this rather straightforward issue is just going - whoosh - over your head.
Do you intend to have the word trajectory included in this?
@fmf saidSo, why not put a question directly to me, in a clear context, so I can make a comment on it, and then I can elaborate to provide clarification.
No. But quibbling about the word like this is just a dodge. What I am getting at with regards to your appeal to "church fathers and Saints" and the historical reality of slavery is pretty obvious. You are either being evasive for some reason or this rather straightforward issue is just going - whoosh - over your head.