02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @romans1009What of white washed tombs? Were they righteous in their actions?
Spot on. That’s why John 3:16 and Romans 10:9 say to believe in Jesus in one’s heart. The heart determines thoughts and thoughts determine actions. It’s amazing how many atheist don’t get this.
02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @eladarWorks are judged by heartfelt intent. In the comic "Calvin and Hobbes" Calvin wondered... if he does good things for the sole purpose of earning more loot under the Christmas tree, will Santa still give him credit? The answer is obvious.
What of white washed tombs? Were they righteous in their actions?
Originally posted by @tom-wolseyWho can judge heart felt intent?
Works are judged by heartfelt intent. In the comic "Calvin and Hobbes" Calvin wondered... if he does good things for the sole purpose of earning more loot under the Christmas tree, will Santa still give him credit? The answer is obvious.
Read in the original post about how Paul felt about his own salvation.
02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @tom-wolseyKind of puts a kink in OSAS doctrine, at least in application.
God and God alone.
02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @eladarNot at all.
Kind of puts a kink in OSAS doctrine, at least in application.
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02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @eladarYou’d be right if God’s Holy Spirit didn’t indwell someone when they genuinely and sincerely believed in and accepted Christ.
Kind of puts a kink in OSAS doctrine, at least in application.
“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”
(Romans 8:16)
02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @romans1009Can either of you explain how God being the sole judge of our heart, contradicts OSAS?
You’d be right if God’s Holy Spirit didn’t indwell someone when they genuinely and sincerely believed in and accepted Christ.
“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”
(Romans 8:16)
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02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @tom-wolseyI don’t think it does.
Can either of you explain how God being the sole judge of our heart, contradicts OSAS?
02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @tom-wolseyWho knows then that they are saved? God makes the call, not them.
Not at all.
02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @romans10091 Corinthians 4
No, He doesn’t. Individual people determine if they are saved based on whether they accept or reject Christ.
Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. 3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.
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02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @eladarWhy do you think Paul is speaking of salvation in those verses?
1 Corinthians 4
Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. 3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the ...[text shortened]... and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.
This, also written by Paul, seems much more straightforward:
“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”
(Romans 8:16)
02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @eladarTherein lies the conundrum. The bible tells us our salvation is assured once we are born again. Then what of the value of faith if grace is permanent? Our faith is in the promises of God. Yes we are assured, but we have faith that the assurance is true and reliable.
Who knows then that they are saved? God makes the call, not them.