The Role of the Unrepentant Skeptic

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Psst, if you're playing the numbers game, more people in the world believe in reincarnation.

Ouch. How's your foot?

I'm guessing most people who believe in reincarnation haven't heard the gospel of Jesus Christ yet.

PS: The physiotherapy is almost worse than the double fracture, getting there slowly but surely thanks for asking. 🙂

Originally posted by apathist
I think a real god really rising from the dead would be obvious. You have been fooled by tricks. Stories of tricks, not even the tricks themselves!

I do wonder where you get 500 from. Zero saw it happen, a few followers advocated, and the rest of the entire world just carried on. It is like your god is incredibly weak.

You are a wealth of knowledge, you know that how?

Originally posted by dj2becker
I'm guessing most people who believe in reincarnation haven't heard the gospel of Jesus Christ yet.

PS: The physiotherapy is almost worse than the double fracture, getting there slowly but surely thanks for asking. 🙂

I was referring of course to you 'shooting yourself in the foot.'

Could it not equally be argued that that the people believing in the gospel haven't considered reincarnation yet? (And do you really think the billion plus people believing in reincarnation are really oblivious to the gospel of Jesus?!)

Originally posted by apathist
Sneak into the tomb, steal the body. I'm kinda proud of your founders.

Who moved the stone?

Originally posted by apathist
I think a real god really rising from the dead would be obvious. You have been fooled by tricks. Stories of tricks, not even the tricks themselves!

I do wonder where you get 500 from. Zero saw it happen, a few followers advocated, and the rest of the entire world just carried on. It is like your god is incredibly weak.

I think a real god really rising from the dead would be obvious. You have been fooled by tricks. Stories of tricks, not even the tricks themselves!

I do wonder where you get 500 from. Zero saw it happen, a few followers advocated, and the rest of the entire world just carried on. It is like your god is incredibly weak.
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This complaint doesn't do much for me, perhaps because I do read the Bible.

I recall the story of God coming down on Mt. Sinai for a very dramatic manifestation of His supernatural presence and power. In spite of this grandstanding appearance in Exodus it didn't take long for the impact to wear off.

The witnesses of this appearing of God in about forty days made idols for themselves and demanded that Aaron take them BACK to the place from which Yahweh had so dramatically and miraculoulsy liberated them - plagues, pillar of fire, Red Sea parting and all.

Now there is something about that story that reminds me of me. It reminds me of a lot of real people. The ho-hum-ness of the idea of God actually can return and the sinner say "Well, back to business as usual."

There is a certain amount of space given to dramatic manifestation of God. But that place is not unlimited. It has its place but it has divinely imposed limits because God wants not just our objective nod. He wants our inner being. And He wants it without coercing it.

A certain amount of public witness accompanied the miracle of Christ rising from the dead. But the matter is not without all limits. My style may have been to write it in the stars "Here I am! I'm God you know. I was Jesus who rose from the dead. Here it is written out across the universe so you cannot possibly miss it."

Like Mt. Sinai's manifestation, I think the nature of our rebellion and revolt would eventually even possibly become bored with even this display. And it would be our our sinful lives as usual we would continue giving and occasional nod that, yes objectively, God is out there somewhere. Now umm - On with the show.

The physical resurrection manifestation had a sphere of importance. We should also consider the words of the One who rose, to Thomas, the last holdout of the twelve.

" Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed." (John 20:29)

No apathist. You and I did not witness this miracle. But we can have our lives changed by believing and receiving the available Spirit of Jesus Christ trusting that He is living, unusual for certain, but living. He is God-man you know ?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Any excuse to ignore the obvious. 😉

Well, it WAS an obvious logical fallacy. One of us is ignoring the obvious; that is certain.

Originally posted by sonship
[b] I think a real god really rising from the dead would be obvious. You have been fooled by tricks. Stories of tricks, not even the tricks themselves!

I do wonder where you get 500 from. Zero saw it happen, a few followers advocated, and the rest of the entire world just carried on. It is like your god is incredibly weak.
------------------------- ...[text shortened]... sus Christ trusting that He is living, unusual for certain, but living. He is God-man you know ?[/b]

Always love reading your stuff.

I know my endorsement is like a death warrant up in here, but I offer encouragement nonetheless.

Very good stuff.

Originally posted by sonship
I think ...

I know it works for you, it is powerful, you are a better person because. What you see, it is personal!

An average typical person is trying to get along and maybe understand some stuff. You don't need me to print the list of gods again.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Well, it WAS an obvious logical fallacy. One of us is ignoring the obvious; that is certain.

The question was not whether not whether something is true or false but obvious. I am saying it is obvious to at least a billion people. So in my opinion apathist can't play the 'God didn't make it obvious enough' card. Or are you trying to argue that something that is accepted by more than a billion people is not obvious enough?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Psst, if you're playing the numbers game, more people in the world believe in reincarnation.

Ouch. How's your foot?

All I am saying is that I think apathists complaint that it isn't obvious enough is unfounded since it is obvious to more than a billion people.

Originally posted by dj2becker
All I am saying is that I think apathists complaint that it isn't obvious enough is unfounded since it is obvious to more than a billion people.

And you of course accept 'reincarnation' is obvious to more than a billion people?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
And you of course accept 'reincarnation' is obvious to more than a billion people?

I am not talking about superstition based upon no evidence whatsoever but about an event recorded in the Bible that was apparently observed by 500 eyewitnesses. If you have a claim that 500 eyewitnesses have observed reincarnation feel free to provide it. I think the evidence for the resurrection outweighs the evidence for reincarnation. But obviously I may not be aware of evidence for reincarnation so if you have any feel free to provide it.

Originally posted by dj2becker
I am not talking about superstition based upon no evidence whatsoever but about an event recorded in the Bible that was apparently observed by 500 eyewitnesses. If you have a claim that 500 eyewitnesses have observed reincarnation feel free to provide it. I think the evidence for the resurrection outweighs the evidence for reincarnation. But obviously I may not be aware of evidence for reincarnation so if you have any feel free to provide it.

When you have to use the word 'apparently' it ain't evidence!

Look, you may want to dismiss reincarnation as superstition, but will have a hard time extricating Christianity from such a charge. Obviously I don't believe in reincarnation or your 'factual bible' but if you want accounts of reincarnation then just google it. Knock yourself out. There's a plethora of examples of reincarnation out there where people remember things from past lives that are difficult to explain or dismiss.

You also need to ask yourself why you are willing to dismiss the beliefs of a billion plus people so readily as being based on no evidence whatsoever.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
When you have to use the word 'apparently' it ain't evidence!

Look, you may want to dismiss reincarnation as superstition, but will have a hard time extricating Christianity from such a charge. Obviously I don't believe in reincarnation or your 'factual bible' but if you want accounts of reincarnation then just google it. Knock yourself out. There ...[text shortened]... ismiss the beliefs of a billion plus people so readily as being based on no evidence whatsoever.

When you have to use the word 'apparently' it ain't evidence!

Out of interest, have you ever studied the evidence for the resurrection? If so on what exact basis do you reject it?

You also need to ask yourself why you are willing to dismiss the beliefs of a billion plus people so readily as being based on no evidence whatsoever.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing with Christianity?

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]When you have to use the word 'apparently' it ain't evidence!

Out of interest, have you ever studied the evidence for the resurrection? If so on what exact basis do you reject it?

You also need to ask yourself why you are willing to dismiss the beliefs of a billion plus people so readily as being based on no evidence whatsoever.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing with Christianity?[/b]

Interesting that you chose to ignore the meat of my post. You also provided no answers whatsoever, just deflective questions.