Originally posted by divegeesterBeen more or less saying this about him for about 5 years now. This mostly comes from his elevating the teachings of men higher than the teachings of Christ. That kind of thing is bound for failure.
You (jaywill/sonship) present yourself in this forum as a teacher and yet it is my contention that apart from the JWs, you are the Christian who posts the most error; some of which is the most astonishing fruit-loopery I've ever heard come out of the mouth of a believer in Christ. You are even called out over your beliefs by those less contentious here, ...[text shortened]... m to think, I just refuse to swallow your error because it is wrapped up in your pseudo-sermons.
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Originally posted by divegeesterYou (jaywill/sonship) present yourself in this forum as a teacher and yet it is my contention that apart from the JWs, you are the Christian who posts the most error; some of which is the most astonishing fruit-loopery I've ever heard come out of the mouth of a believer in Christ.
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You couldn't fool me by using Malachi 3:6 to fight against the incarnation or Christ becoming the life giving Spirit. So you lash out with charges of "fruit-loopery."
Just give up fighting against the economical move of God by brandishing that passage.
You are even called out over your beliefs by those less contentious here, such as KellyJay in this thread.
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This doesn't do much to save face for you, being exposed that Malachi 3:6 doesn't contradict God having come in the flesh (John 1:14).
This doesn't recover you from the error that Malachi 3:6 doesn't forbid that Christ, the last Adam became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45).
You are unable to deal with the specifics according to your opposition to the economical process of the Triune God. It is better to just renounce your opposition to the economical move of the Triune God in His dispensing eternal life to man.
Still looking for some substance to refute my "fruit-loopery".
What else do you have ?
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I have nothing against you personally, although I'm sure you think I do have, it just find that whenever you post your lengthy pontifications are laced with fundamental errors. Here is another one:
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Hmmm. Does calling my correction a "pontification" recover you from your error? No.
Does calling my correction a "fundamental error" prove that Malachi 3:6 is against the economical process of the Triune God? No.
There is nothing here that recovers from your misapplication of Malachi 3:6.
It is better to just admit that that verse cannot teach against the two great "became/s" of the New Testament:
" And the Word became flesh [ the Word Who was God (v.1)] and tabernacled among us ..." (John 1:14)
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
Rather than detail your personal feelings about me, I think you should give attention to the truth of the word of God. God has gone through a kind of process in His economical move to impart Himself into man. And Malachi 3:6 doesn't contradict this.
Give you attention to adjusting your understanding of the Bible's revelation.
the Holy Spirit changed due to being added to by the ingredients of Christ's experiences. Sonship this is gross error about the nature of God. The Trinity is error. Eternal suffering is error. People living on other planets and observing the eternal suffering is error.
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Before the life, death, resurrection and glorification of the man Jesus of Nazareth the Scriptures says that "the Spirit was not yet" (John 7:39) .
I will stand by this and discuss and defend it.
Those who want to go away in a huff or with quips about my being pompous are welcome to find better things to do than read my posts.
I do have patience on this matter. I do recognize some will have difficulty with it because of traditional notions.
I think that those who disagree probably have their best chance to do so by saying john 7:39 only means that the Spirit was not "GIVEN". I respect that viewpoint. But I regard it as not exactly what the Gospel means there.
The powerful symbolism of the compounding of the anointing oil in Exodus 30:22-33. is useful to grasp how the incarnation, living, death, resurrection of Jesus (God incarnate) went into the eternal Spirit of God.
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i sympathize some with Christians who just cannot take this or who complain it "reduces" the Holy Spirit or Christ (which charge I find absurd). But my sympathy does not cause me to stop explaining and recommending it This is the viewpoint the church really needs today.
All that Jesus attained and obtained in the thirty-three and a half years He lived on earth as God manifest in the flesh became the ingredients of the Holy Spirit. So that "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
The goal is to dispense God into man.
The eternal purpose of God in His triune being is to dispense God into man.
A life giving Spirit is really a God giving Spirit. He is also a Jesus the man giving Spirit. He is also the death of Jesus giving Spirit and a patience of Jesus giving Spirit. He is the fine humanity of the Nazarene plus the eternal divinity of God - giving Spirit.
He is a Spirit that gives God to man as life.
He is a Spirit who gives Jesus Christ to man as eternal life.
Shame on you for fighting against this great truth by grasping at "I the Lord do not change" .
It should be evident that BEFORE the Word became flesh, the Word had not yet become flesh. That indicates a kind of process.
It should be evident that BEFORE the last Adam became a life giving Spirit He had not YET become a life giving Spirit.
At least from out viewpoint in time, God has gone through a kind of process to accomplish His eternal purpose to dispense God into man. If this were not so the revelation of Scripture would not say these two matters:
"And the Word became flesh ...." (John 1:14)
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45b)
This is why I negatively engage with you. I'm not attacking the gospel as some here seem to think, I just refuse to swallow your error because it is wrapped up in your pseudo-sermons.
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You were in error to suggest "I the Lord do not change" denies the incarnation of God as a man or that the last Adam became a divine / human life giving Spirit dispensing the God-man Jesus into man.
I don't swallow your error there on Malachi 3:6. Sorry. Nothing personal.
Originally posted by sonship"I am the Lord and I change NOT" the Lord does not change. Feel free to attempt to prove that he does.
[b] You (jaywill/sonship) present yourself in this forum as a teacher and yet it is my contention that apart from the JWs, you are the Christian who posts the most error; some of which is the most astonishing fruit-loopery I've ever heard come out of the mouth of a believer in Christ.
-------------------------------------------------------------------- ...[text shortened]... man.
Still looking for some substance to refute my "fruit-loopery".
What else do you have ?[/b]
"Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is ONE" not THREE...(you continue to ignore this despite me posting it several times
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Originally posted by divegeesterHe changes not in this attitude towards the moral degradation that was destroying the theocratic nation.
"And I will draw near to you for judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers and against those who swear falsely and against those who oppress the hired worker for his hire, and the widow and the orphan, and those who turn the stranger aside, and who do not fear Me, says Jehovah of hosts.
For I, Jehovah, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed." (Malachi 3:5,6)
I can't help you if you refuse to realize that this verse has to be true AND John 1:14 and 1 Cor. 15:45 have to be also true. We should trust God Who has spoken both.
So "I the Lord change NOT" as you prefer, should be taken in the light of the context in which it was spoken.
And the Lord is one cannot mean that the Son is not God incarnate.
And the Lord is one cannot mean that the Holy Spirit is not God Himself.
But surely, the Lord is one.
In the experience of the Christians we can see that they can detect no separation between the titles used for the ONE God -
" But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you." (Rom. 8:9-11)
This is very experiential speaking. It is not a creedal formula. It is not a statement of systematic theology. It is the fellowship of enjoyment and experience with the Apostle Paul taking for granted that his hearers know what he is speaking.
They cannot detect any separation between -
"The Spirit of God,"
"The Spirit of Christ,"
"Christ,"
"The Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead"
He who raised Jesus from the dead was the first of the Trinity - the Father
" ... God the Father, who raised Him from the dead." (Gal. 1:1)
"Whom God raised up, having loosed the pangs of death, since it was not possible for Him to be held by it." (Acts 2:24)
The Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead is called "Christ".
" ... if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you, Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ he is not of Him. But if Christ is in you ..."
This God gives life to our mortal bodies.
Christ, the last Adam became the life giving Spirit.
The Christian can detect no difference and no separation experimentally between the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit of the Trinity.
We know that God is imparting divine life into our whole being. The God who is one is Father - Son - Holy Spirit in order to dispense Himself into man.
Originally posted by sonshipStill avoiding the other point I see 😉
He [b] changes not in this attitude towards the moral degradation that was destroying the theocratic nation.
[quote]
"And I will draw near to you for judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers and against those who swear falsely and against those who oppress the hired worker for his hire, and the wid ...[text shortened]... e being. The God who is one is Father - Son - Holy Spirit in order to dispense Himself into man.
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Originally posted by divegeesterMalachi 3:6 does not contradict the John 1:14 or 1 Cor. 15:45.
Does God change or not?
Doctrinal question.
Live with it.
You can make a creedal statement that God changes or you can make a creedal statement that God does not change. I don't care as long as we realize and believe that -
"And the Word became flesh" (John 1:14) and
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45)
Originally posted by sonshipAgain you willfully and wrongly intrepret the Bible to suit your own desires. Strong and weak in the doctrine of Christ carries a particular meaning which is explained here.
weak
a boast of your wishful thinking and a wink ?
Really weak.
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (Hebrews 5:12-14 KJV)
Strong has to do with the ability to discern, and the desire to preach and teach the weak about
good and evil,
right and wrong,
righteous and unrighteous
It has nothing to do with the ability to persuade others of petty. irrelevant interpretations of vague scripture .. in which you excel.
The weightier mattes of which Jesus Christ preached is never ever preached or discussed by you.
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The ointment of Exodus 30:22-33 speaks of the living of Jesus being compounded into the eternal Spirit.
Jesus prepared a life for us to live. And what He lived was put into the eternal Spirit as the finest four spices were compounded into the hin of olive oil.
This is a picture of the truth of First Corinthians 15:45b which says that "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit".
This really should warm our hearts toward Jesus Christ. It should make His Person more precious to us than ever before IMO. Christ Jesus transfigured Himself into a form in which God could dispense Christ into man as "life giving Spirit".
Now man did have the Spirit of God influence him in the past days of the Old Testament. This cannot be denied. But with the life, death, resurrection, ascension, and exaltation of the MAN - Jesus of Nazareth this eternal Spirit included now not only the divinity of God but the humanity of Jesus.
The compound Spirit allows us to apply the death of Christ.
The compound Spirit makes the death of Jesus preciously applicable to our troublesome self.
The compound Spirit allows us to stimulate our hearts to love God.
The compound of the ointment repels Satan.
Here are just a few passages that show how Paul applied and teaches us to apply what was the ingredients of the Spirit of Christ to his life.
" ... are you ignorant that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death ? " (Rom. 6:3)
How precious it is that when we turn our hearts to the Spirit of Christ living in our regenerated spirit that we can APPLY the death of Christ which is there in the Spirit.
Paul does not want us to be ignorant or robbed of this precious truth.
Here again the death of Christ is APPLICABLE in the Christian life to kill off so many bad "germs" of the fallen old man.
" Knowing this, that our old man has been crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be annulled, that we should no longer serve sin as slaves;
For he who has died is justified from sin. Now if we have died with Christ we believe that we also shall live with Him" (Rom. 6:6-8)
The power of Christ's crucifixion is available to man.
His death is useful to us to kill off the old man.
This is why we say that in the Holy Spirit are the ingredients needed for our full salvation and for the accomplishment of God's purpose.
Praise the Lord for the compound all-inclusive Spirit of Jesus Christ.
He does not just come upon man today as the Old Testament prophets.
Rather He brings Jesus into us to be one with us to actually live Christ.
Paul killed off his self pity, his anxiety, his envy, his worry while he was in chains.
The negative situation of his imprisonment could not depress him.
Depression, disappointment, dejection were killed of by the cross of Christ which virtually within the Holy Spirit as part of the bountiful supply.
He could insist that the Philippians rejoice in the Lord with him.
"For I know that for me this ..."
The "this" was the pressing trial of his troublesome circumstances. He was chained to soldiers and behind bars. Rival workers were slandering him and damaging the churches he had established. He could not get out of jail to do anything about it.
Yet he says all this will work to his salvation. Meaning all this will drive him out of himself and cause him to be more and more saturated with the the Spirit of Jesus Christ with His "bountiful supply."
"For I know that for this will turn out to salvation through your petition and the bountiful supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
... For to me to live is Christ and to die is gain." (See Phil. 1:19,21)
Originally posted by sonshipDoes God change or not?
[b]Malachi 3:6 does not contradict the John 1:14 or 1 Cor. 15:45.
Live with it.
You can make a creedal statement that God changes or you can make a creedal statement that God does not change. I don't care as long as we realize and believe that -
"And the Word became flesh" (John 1:14) and
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit." (1 Cor. 15:45) [/b]
Doctrinal question; The answer is either a yes or a no.
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Originally posted by divegeesterI agree with you. The reason it is difficult for Jews to take Christianity seriously is for the very reasons you state.
Still avoiding it then...😉
God is clearly one and He does not change.
I credit the Jewish people for their devotion and for not being swayed by this man made theology.