The thing about LOVE

@kellyjay said
You have ignored specific text from scriptures that shows your errors. Repeating them doesn’t seem to matter, you are hell bent (pun intended) to hang on to your unbiblical doctrine no matter what.

I think you are suffering from the same disease that infects many of these church groups.. ie the inability to read the context and see who is being addressed.

eg Jesus in addressing Peter told him that he is the rock upon which He will build his church . You cannot possibly apply that to all Christians. That is specifically for Peter

Another example is the case where Jesus told 70 disciples that their names are written in heaven. Again that is for those 70 disciples and cannot possibly be applied across the board to all of Christianity, although many wrongly do.

Here now you think that this passage

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. (John 15:5 KJV)

Jesus is addressing the disciples. Nowhere in Jesus's preaching did he every say that nobody can do good works without him. That is a nonsense church doctrine

@rajk999 said
I think you are suffering from the same disease that infects many of these church groups.. ie the inability to read the context and see who is being addressed.

eg Jesus in addressing Peter told him that he is the rock upon which He will build his church . You cannot possibly apply that to all Christians. That is specifically for Peter

Another example is the case where J ...[text shortened]... hing did he every say that nobody can do good works without him. That is a nonsense church doctrine

You do assume a lot. So tell me we can do one scripture at a time.
From John 3

Jesus said,
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

Do you think Jesus means what He said here? This is in agreement with the narrow way, but tell me do you reject these words from Christ?

@kellyjay said
You do assume a lot. So tell me we can do one scripture at a time.
From John 3

Jesus said,
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

Do you think Jesus means what He said here? This is in agreement with the narrow way, but tell me do you reject these words from Christ?

I know you think it means to believe with your mouth and profess belief with your mouth, and those who profess with their mouth that they believe in Christ are saved. This is why I call you a preacher of mouth worship.

Jesus is not interested in professions of belief or faith with the mouth. Jesus is interested in good works and righteousness.

@rajk999 said
I know you think it means to believe with your mouth and profess belief with your mouth, and those who profess with their mouth that they believe in Christ are saved. This is why I call you a preacher of mouth worship.

Jesus is not interested in professions of belief or faith with the mouth. Jesus is interested in good works and righteousness.

I did not ask you what you think, I think it means. I accept it word for word as Jesus said it. What do you think Jesus is saying? I actually believe what the scriptures say which is we are saved by God's grace through faith, it is a gift of God. Now back to the question you did not answer.


Jesus said,
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

Do you think Jesus means what He said here? This is in agreement with the narrow way, but tell me do you reject these words from Christ?

@kellyjay said
Thank you dive!

No problem.
Your dodge is once again noted.

@divegeester said
No problem.
Your dodge is once again noted.

WHAT?

@kellyjay said
WHAT?

Are pretending you don’t know what I’m taking about, or do you honestly not know...?

Truth is required.

@divegeester said
Are pretending you don’t know what I’m taking about, or do you honestly not know...?

Truth is required.

When I responded to you last if I'm not mistaken it was because you said I had not given R scripture in our discussion and I told you to look at the whole thread. I have no frigging idea what you are going on about now, so enlighten me please!

@kellyjay said
When I responded to you last if I'm not mistaken it was because you said I had not given R scripture in our discussion and I told you to look at the whole thread. I have no frigging idea what you are going on about now, so enlighten me please!

Firstly please try to keep calm. I’m pointing out that you haven’t addressed my question about: god of love vs god of eternal torture.

All you did was lengthily reassert your beliefs and then tell me it’s because the bible says so then tell me to read the thread, each of which are lazy copy outs and go nowhere to examining the the ultimate contradiction at the heart of your particular doctrine.

@divegeester said
Firstly please try to keep calm. I’m pointing out that you haven’t addressed my question about: god of love vs god of eternal torture.

All you did was lengthily reassert your beliefs and then tell me it’s because the bible says so then tell me to read the read, each of which are lazy copy outs and go nowhere to examining the the ultimate contradiction at the heart of your particular doctrine.

I've made a couple of attempts, you can point out to me what about what I have said does not apply, you didn't. If one of us is dodging here, its you!

Scripture is plain, God is going to judge, Jesus who took on everything we did wrong upon Himself so we can be forgiven is the one we are going to be standing in front of. What He did was either accepted by us or not, if not, then all that He went through to save us will not apply, so the punishment for sins and the rejection of Jesus will fall on the sinners in full. You don't like that, you feel it isn't moral, that is fine, but it is God's Kingdom not yours.

I'm not sure why you think God has to comply with you feelings! You realize we are going to Him for salvation right, we are asking Him to forgive us for the sins we have done against Him, we are asking Him to allow us to enter into His family, we are asking Him to allow us to serve Him. We are not going to God to make Him our Lord and Savior as a favor to Him, that He should be honored that we are blessing Him by favoring Him over other gods!

Not sure where you get off telling God what He can and cannot do, I think if anyone here is lazy and copying out its you. There is no ultimate contradiction from my stance, I'm not the one saying the Word of God, is the Word of God except where I don't like it, that is your contradiction!

@kellyjay said
I've made a couple of attempts, you can point out to me what about what I have said does not apply, you didn't. If one of us is dodging here, its you!

Scripture is plain, God is going to judge, Jesus who took on everything we did wrong upon Himself so we can be forgiven is the one we are going to be standing in front of. What He did was either accepted by us or not, if no ...[text shortened]... saying the Word of God, is the Word of God except where I don't like it, that is your contradiction!

All this is is you reasserting your beliefs and telling me that your interpretation of the bible is “plain”.

We are dealing with the incongruity at the heart of your particular version of Christian doctrine God is LOVE (using your capitalisation) vs God tortures non Christians alive for eternity.

I am accepting what you believe is what you believe, there is no need to keep telling me. What you need to do if you want to, is to address and explain the incongruence of a God of LOVE vs the God of eternal torture.

You do NOT need to reassert what you believe nor do you need to tell me that Bible is “plain”. I accept that you believe it.

@divegeester said
All this is is you reasserting your beliefs and telling me that your interpretation of the bible is “plain”.

We are dealing with the incongruity at the heart of your particular version of Christian doctrine God is LOVE (using your capitalisation) vs God tortures non Christians alive for eternity.

I am accepting what you believe is what you believe, there is no nee ...[text shortened]... ert what you believe nor do you need to tell me that Bible is “plain”. I accept that you believe it.

I accept that we will spend eternity with or without God, and the without God is a horror.

@kellyjay said
I did not ask you what you think, I think it means. I accept it word for word as Jesus said it. What do you think Jesus is saying? I actually believe what the scriptures say which is we are saved by God's grace through faith, it is a gift of God. Now back to the question you did not answer.


Jesus said,
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not be ...[text shortened]... d here? This is in agreement with the narrow way, but tell me do you reject these words from Christ?

You are saved by grace. You do not get eternal life however unless there is good works and righteous living.

The grace of God is for everyone.
Eternal life is not for everyone, because everyone would not follow Christ commandments.

@kellyjay said
I accept that we will spend eternity with or without God, and the without God is a horror.

I know that you accept that, thank you for telling me again. Let’s put aside our Christian God for the moment, let’s imagine an anonymous supernatural being called X.

Would you accept that there is a moral incongruence between Being X claiming to “be love”, whilst at the same time Being X carrying out a behaviour of keeping creatures souls in existence eternally in order to burn them alive.?

@kellyjay said
I accept that we will spend eternity with or without God, and the without God is a horror.

Where does the bible say we well spend eternity with or without God?