Originally posted by JS357I think an absolute should also be obligatory for all people to follow. If it optional then it isn't really absolute. If it is God-given and applies to all people then it certainly is obligatory.
OK I'll ask this question first: Do you agree with the statement:
A moral rule is absolute if it is unconditional, not subject to exceptions, and applicable in all situations equally? That is, with no further qualifications such as being God-given?
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkDo you think anyone not subservient to an absolute will feel inclined to obey the authority of the absolute? This is not a question of whether they should.
I think an absolute should also be obligatory for all people to follow. If it optional then it isn't really absolute. If it is God-given and applies to all people then it certainly is obligatory.
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Originally posted by KellyJayIf rape is only wrong because a society decided that it is and not because its is intrinsically wrong, the question arises whether society has the right to impose its morals on its people. If however rape is instrisicallt wrong and God etched that knowledge into everyone's conscience then everyone would feel obliged not to do it whether their society enforces it or not.
Do you think anyone not subservient to an absolute will feel inclined to obey the authority of the absolute? This is not a question of whether they should.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkDo you believe, then, that without reference to your god figure, that societies do not have "the right" to define, enforce and punish crimes like rape?
If rape is only wrong because a society decided that it is and not because its is intrinsically wrong, the question arises whether society has the right to impose its morals on its people.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkI think you need to get your head around the notion that people 'are society.' You seem fixated on the idea that society is separate from people and tries to force its morality on them. People give morality to society. Society in turn puts in place measures to protect and police that morality for the benefit of its citizens.(And no, society or people are not perfect).
If rape is only wrong because a society decided that it is and not because its is intrinsically wrong, the question arises whether society has the right to impose its morals on its people. If however rape is instrisicallt wrong and God etched that knowledge into everyone's conscience then everyone would feel obliged not to do it whether their society enforces it or not.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkI didn't include "God-given" in my response to your question.
I think an absolute should also be obligatory for all people to follow. If it optional then it isn't really absolute. If it is God-given and applies to all people then it certainly is obligatory.
I question whether every absolute moral rule is obligatory on all people, but it is simply because I haven't seen a list of all of them. I can imagine there being some rules that apply differently to different people depending on what the differences are. But for the sake of argument we could exclude such rules from the list and just talk about the ones that apply to all alike.
I assume you view the Bible as the sole repository of such rules. I have a question or 2 that depend on whether this assumption is correct.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkThinking I was clear. You get to decide right from wrong. This is actually the case. It is on you.
When you say 'figure out' does that mean you believe an objective standard is already in place and we have to discover it or do you mean each person creates their own right and wrong?
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkI say it is wrong, because of empathy. We are a team. If you need sky-daddy to tell you right from wrong then listen closely. It speaks through your mouth.
If rape is only wrong because a society decided that it is and not because its is intrinsically wrong, the question arises whether society has the right to impose its morals on its people. If however rape is instrisicallt wrong and God etched that knowledge into everyone's conscience then everyone would feel obliged not to do it whether their society enforces it or not.
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Originally posted by FMFThe problem is this if we claim that morals derived from society are automatically the right ones for that society and each society has the right to impose it's morals on the people then we can't say anything about Nazi Germany imposing it's morals on its people since it would be doing the right thing.
Do you believe, then, that without reference to your god figure, that societies do not have "the right" to define, enforce and punish crimes like rape?
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeThat still begs the question, what justifies the idea that society is the proper place to obtain a standard of morality?
I think you need to get your head around the notion that people 'are society.' You seem fixated on the idea that society is separate from people and tries to force its morality on them. People give morality to society. Society in turn puts in place measures to protect and police that morality for the benefit of its citizens.(And no, society or people are not perfect).
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Originally posted by JS357I believe true morality is encapsulated in the behavior and character of Christ and we are to follow his teachings and example obviously within the bounds of reason that he has given us.
I didn't include "God-given" in my response to your question.
I question whether every absolute moral rule is obligatory on all people, but it is simply because I haven't seen a list of all of them. I can imagine there being some rules that apply differently to different people depending on what the differences are. But for the sake of argument we could exc ...[text shortened]... ository of such rules. I have a question or 2 that depend on whether this assumption is correct.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkIt's as if you have not read or understood anything I've ever posted.
The problem is this if we claim that morals derived from society are automatically the right ones for that society and each society has the right to impose it's morals on the people then we can't say anything about Nazi Germany imposing it's morals on its people since it would be doing the right thing.