The truth will set you free

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Ideally you would be judged justly. Ideally everyone would be judged justly. Do you picture any time in the past, present or future where this wouldn't be the ideal?

No. Go on.

Originally posted by snowinscotland
No. Go on.

Judge one another fairly, treat one another fairly, etc.

Any reason this shouldn't be a basis for a standard of living in this world?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Judge one another fairly, treat one another fairly, etc.

Any reason this shouldn't be a basis for a standard of living in this world?

People tend to follow what is in their own interests, including the interests of the group they 'belong' to. For example , if you are a Muslim, you will tend to follow and support the reasoning of the Islamic Courts, eg that the word of a Muslim is worth twice the word of any other witness (I think, and for example). This makes sense because it supports and reinforces the community you 'belong' to. Or if you support the reasoning of the ID group it makes sense to reduce the influence of contrary opinions as much as possible by introducing ID as a 'science' subject. (the picture is more confusing because there are overlapping groups). Now what is this 'fair' you talk about. What is 'fair' for one is not always fair for another. Pragmatically, you could drop to the lowest common denominator of all, and still find disagreement. EG 'Do not kill'; there are groups that, under certain circumstances, think that killing is legal and fair. The USA does for example. The reasons for that can be argued about, but I would suggest there is no 'lowest common denominator'.

Originally posted by snowinscotland
People tend to follow what is in their own interests, including the interests of the group they 'belong' to. For example , if you are a Muslim, you will tend to follow and support the reasoning of the Islamic Courts, eg that the word of a Muslim is worth twice the word of any other witness (I think, and for example). This makes sense because it suppor ...[text shortened]... can be argued about, but I would suggest there is no 'lowest common denominator'.

By fixating at 'what is', you seem to be unable to see 'what should be'. You've yet to say anything without using 'what is' as your basis. Perhaps the flaw in your reasoning is the use of 'what is' in your search for the 'lowest common denominator'.

Once again, try thinking 'outside the box'. You seem trapped.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
By fixating at 'what is', you seem to be unable to see 'what should be'. You've yet to say anything without using 'what is' as your basis. Perhaps the flaw in your reasoning is the use of 'what is' in your search for the 'lowest common denominator'.

Once again, try thinking 'outside the box'. You seem trapped.

I am going on my experience, and what I have learned from history.
I don't think I am trapped inside a box, though. I shall, for the purposes of this thread, throw away my 'what is' questions as best I can.

So fire away. What do you propose?

Originally posted by snowinscotland
I am going on my experience, and what I have learned from history.
I don't think I am trapped inside a box, though. I shall, for the purposes of this thread, throw away my 'what is' questions as best I can.

So fire away. What do you propose?

That's what I've been trying to do with little success.

Maybe the first thing you need to do is to admit that you're probably trapped.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
That's what I've been trying to do with little success.

Maybe the first thing you need to do is to admit that you're probably trapped.

So you are proposing we all live to a set of eternal and absolute moral values, right?

And these are.....

Originally posted by snowinscotland
So you are proposing we all live to a set of eternal and absolute moral values, right?

And these are.....

No. I'm saying that I believe that there is an absolute and eternal truth and that there exists a standard of living that is based on those truths. We've been here a few times now. I'm at a loss as to how to best explain this to you.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
No. I'm saying that I believe that there is an absolute and eternal truth and that there exists a standard of living that is based on those truths. We've been here a few times now. I'm at a loss as to how to best explain this to you.

Try me on what you think these standards are...

Originally posted by snowinscotland
Try me on what you think these standards are...

I suspect we're a quantum leap apart. One or both of us aren't seeing the truth. I've yet to find a remedy for this situation.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I suspect we're a quantum leap apart. One or both of us aren't seeing the truth. I've yet to find a remedy for this situation.

Perhaps the truth will set us free eh?

Perhaps one of us believes that they are right, and know the absolute and eternal truth, but don't yet have the experience yet to pass the information on. Or perhaps none of us can know what the absolute and eternal truth is because we are not either absolute or eternal? Perhaps there is an absolute and eternal truth, but it does not lead to anything as trivial as a set of value codes for one set of beings?

Originally posted by snowinscotland
Perhaps the truth will set us free eh?

Perhaps one of us believes that they are right, and know the absolute and eternal truth, but don't yet have the experience yet to pass the information on. Or perhaps none of us can know what the absolute and eternal truth is because we are not either absolute or eternal? Perhaps there is an absolute and eterna ...[text shortened]... uth, but it does not lead to anything as trivial as a set of value codes for one set of beings?

If you can get Thinkofone to give an honest straight answer to an honest straight question let me know what your secret is. He'll talk nebulously all day about truth and absolutes but he won't tell you what they are! It's too definitive for him.

Originally posted by snowinscotland
Perhaps the truth will set us free eh?

Perhaps one of us believes that they are right, and know the absolute and eternal truth, but don't yet have the experience yet to pass the information on. Or perhaps none of us can know what the absolute and eternal truth is because we are not either absolute or eternal? Perhaps there is an absolute and eterna ...[text shortened]... uth, but it does not lead to anything as trivial as a set of value codes for one set of beings?

I'd hardly call it trivial. In fact, I don't know if there's anything more important.

Originally posted by knightmeister
If you can get Thinkofone to give an honest straight answer to an honest straight question let me know what your secret is. He'll talk nebulously all day about truth and absolutes but he won't tell you what they are! It's too definitive for him.

I don't know what to say. Maybe you don't even realize how few of your questions are "honest and straight". Most of your questions and a lot of your statements are distortions of what I've said. I know you're uncomfortable discussing issues in the abstract, but that's the way I see them. If you want to call that "nebulous", that's up to you.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I don't know what to say. Maybe you don't even realize how few of your questions are "honest and straight". Most of your questions and a lot of your statements are distortions of what I've said. I know you're uncomfortable discussing issues in the abstract, but that's the way I see them. If you want to call that "nebulous", that's up to you.

Most of your questions and a lot of your statements are distortions of what I've said.


....and I noticed how rarely you attempted to correct any of them.How on earth do you expect people to not distort if you don't say what you are about. Maybe snowinscotland will be better at mind reading than me.