Too long. Didn't read.

Oh, That's ok. You may have forever to think about it.

Originally posted by sonship

Too long. Didn't read.

Oh, That's ok. You may have forever to think about it.

You really don't know how atheists think if you think that all your pathetic empty
threats of hell and an afterlife don't sound anything other than pathetic and empty
to us.

What you are incapable of comprehending is that absent any belief that any god exists
I don't give a damn, and will never give a damn, what the bible says on any topic.

So quoting it at me is an utter and complete waste of time.

Mainly yours as I am not going to read it.

You really don't know how atheists think if you think that all your pathetic empty threats of hell and an afterlife don't sound anything other than pathetic and empty to us.

You tell me how you think.

Now the hell matter. If there is God and God is all knowing, then it follows I think:

If He knows that a certain situation where a being thinks he will be without God and left alone is NOT going to be a place of enjoyment, it is His responsibility to inform us -

" You know you're not going to like it there ."

Hell is God informing his creatures that He knows that an existence totally left alone by God is not going to be an existence that one is going to enjoy.

So in the worst possible terms He warns us of that fact. It is not a threat. It is an all knowing God informing you that you are not going to like this "godless" - "Leave me the hell alone God! " existence you're choosing.

Man's way is to say "Well some places there will be better than others."
This is he concept of Dante in The Divine Comedy. Dante portrays different levels of misery. This is the typical human way.

God's way is not to hold out an advertizement that some places in perdition may be better than others. God's way is to speak in terms so that the entire matter would be avoided at all costs.

I do not want any child of mine to go to Sing Sing Prison in New York State. Even if it is true that some places in Sing Sing are better than other places, I don't care. I want my children to stay out of Sing Sing Prison regardless !

So I tell them that Sing Sing is place they do not want to go, period.

Consider eternal punishment in the Bible the same way. Altogether it is to be avoided through God's salvation.

What you are incapable of comprehending is that absent any belief that any god exists I don't give a damn, and will never give a damn, what the bible says on any topic.

You will not be able to keep that promise. Because you do benefit from SOME things at least which ARE in the Bible. You would be treated by many people much less considerately if it were not for something influencing them from that Bible.

Wasn't it you who was pointing me to Matthew 7:12?
So you are selectively endorsing the Bible.

So quoting it at me is an utter and complete waste of time.

Mainly yours as I am not going to read it.

Maybe that is true. But some of your Bibleless logic is pretty bad.

Tell me again how matter became self conscious.
Tell me about the goaless, guidanceless, chance, bumping around of atoms brought a rock to ever so gradually give rise to a human mind contemplating its place in the cosmos.

Originally posted by sonship

You really don't know how atheists think if you think that all your pathetic empty threats of hell and an afterlife don't sound anything other than pathetic and empty to us.

You tell me how you think.

Now the hell matter. If there is God and God is all knowing, then it follows I think:

Now the hell matter. If there is God and God is all knowing, then it follows I think: ...

This is what you do not seem to be able to understand...

As an atheist, I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT ANY GODS EXIST.

Now we are not having a hypothetical argument about the nature of reality, we are talking
about real world issues.

So when you start your post "If there is God... " then STOP right there.

Because I do not and will not accept that as a premise unless you can prove that your god exists.

Until you do that EVERYTHING you write after "If there is a god..." is a total waste of your time
and mine because I do not accept that premise.

Similarly, unless your god actually exists what your bible says also doesn't matter to me.

So great long posts quoting and discussing it are a waste of your time [when directed at me, and
other atheists].



There is absolutely no point whatsoever in you making arguments that rely on your gods existence to
any atheist unless you can first prove your gods existence to that atheist.

Originally posted by googlefudge
You really don't know how atheists think if you think that all your pathetic empty
threats of hell and an afterlife don't sound anything other than pathetic and empty
to us.

What you are incapable of comprehending is that absent any belief that any god exists
I don't give a damn, and will never give a damn, what the bible says on any topic.

S ...[text shortened]... g it at me is an utter and complete waste of time.

Mainly yours as I am not going to read it.

You really don't know how atheists think...
While the specifics are most assuredly varied, the patterns are fairly consistent and standard.
Predictable, even.

Your presence here says something about your thoughts. Let's examine the possibilities.

• Your rejection of God is tenuous, and you use the forum to strengthen your resolve. You read the varying testimonies, pick them apart one by one and in so doing, confirm your suspicions... sometimes daily.

• Your rejection of God is firm--- you know it to your bones--- and you consider this forum your missionary field: you are here only to spill the light of reason into the darkened minds of those who are lost to blinding religion. Nothing but pure philanthropy on your part.

• You don't really think on your rejection of God that often, but when you do, you simply enjoy the lulz of arguing the point. Your thrill is best served when engaged with those who seem to have deeply vested interests. It's a pastime which has taken on its own life, however: you find yourself morbidly drawn to the flames even when heat no longer emanates, and cannot explain your fascination of constantly covering the same ground. It's like you're stuck in a Twilight Zone.

• Your rejection of God contains a microscopic hope of failure. You come here daily to hear the squeak of the floor board in an empty house, to see the piercing light in the absolute blackness, to have the switch turn from off to on. You secretly and desperately want someone to change your mind.

Well, there might be a few possibilities I missed, but I think I covered the main ones.
Please tell me how close I got, won't you?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]You really don't know how atheists think...
While the specifics are most assuredly varied, the patterns are fairly consistent and standard.
Predictable, even.

Your presence here says something about your thoughts. Let's examine the possibilities.

• Your rejection of God is tenuous, and you use the forum to strengthen your resolve. You re ...[text shortened]... ities I missed, but I think I covered the main ones.
Please tell me how close I got, won't you?[/b]

I am not sure about this one Freaky

You secretly and desperately want someone to change your mind.

I could be wrong.
I am going to oblique this poster and stop writing to him.

I think that the atheist is convicted that he is sinful.
I think that his reaction to this conviction is unusual perhaps.
He thinks a bigger Person could not exist because the projected wrong doings could not be in any proposed God.

I could be wrong. But I think some atheists simply project their own honestly but privately known faults out. Any God must have the same faults. Therefore God cannot exist.

"A bigger version of me cannot exist. Any God would have to be a sinful being like me. That could not be so no God exists."

Anyway, I agree that by writing here everyday the atheist informs us how he thinks for a great deal.

Originally posted by sonship
I am not sure about this one Freaky

You secretly and desperately want someone to change your mind.

I could be wrong.
I am going to oblique this poster and stop writing to him.

I think that the atheist is convicted that he is sinful.
I think that his reaction to this conviction is unusual perhaps.
He thinks a bigger P ...[text shortened]... ay, I agree that by writing here everyday the atheist informs us how he thinks for a great deal.

I concur with the unmeasured reaction, but (strangely) I find some solace in another's pain for the sole reason that the presentation of the torment gives proof of the cleansing agent's efficacy.

Originally posted by sonship
I am not sure about this one Freaky

You secretly and desperately want someone to change your mind.

I could be wrong.
I am going to oblique this poster and stop writing to him.

I think that the atheist is convicted that he is sinful.
I think that his reaction to this conviction is unusual perhaps.
He thinks a bigger P ...[text shortened]... ay, I agree that by writing here everyday the atheist informs us how he thinks for a great deal.

Nope, sorry, you both still seem to be under the impression that we actually do believe that your specific god exists and that we are deliberately turning away from him. This is simply not the case.

We have simply seen no more evidence that he exists than any of the other millions of conceivable deities, which is why we continually ask 'which god?'. It is you who focus on the Christian god, not us.

--- Penguin

Originally posted by Penguin
Nope, sorry, you both still seem to be under the impression that we actually do believe that your specific god exists and that we are deliberately turning away from him. This is simply not the case.

We have simply seen no more evidence that he exists than any of the other millions of conceivable deities, which is why we continually ask 'which god?'. It is you who focus on the Christian god, not us.

--- Penguin

I fail to see which of the bullet points you are rejecting, or in the case of all, the reason thereof.

Originally posted by sonship

Too long. Didn't read.

Oh, That's ok. You may have forever to think about it.

Are you saying that Satan is going to torture the prisoners in hell by forcing them to read your posts? 😉

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]You really don't know how atheists think...
While the specifics are most assuredly varied, the patterns are fairly consistent and standard.
Predictable, even.

Your presence here says something about your thoughts. Let's examine the possibilities.

• Your rejection of God is tenuous, and you use the forum to strengthen your resolve. You re ...[text shortened]... ities I missed, but I think I covered the main ones.
Please tell me how close I got, won't you?[/b]

First, and you do this in every one so I'll deal with it globally...

I don't 'reject' your god [or any gods] because I don't have a belief that it exists.
This is a topic done to death in other threads, but it's the wrong word/term to use and
so I will just restate that here. I have no great expectation of you agreeing but hey.

Also... You make the classic Christian mistake of saying capitalised God singular... implying
that atheism is a rejection of the Christian god.

It isn't. It's a lack of belief in any gods. Christianity has no special place or treatment.

• Your rejection of God is tenuous, and you use the forum to strengthen your resolve. You read the varying testimonies, pick them apart one by one and in so doing, confirm your suspicions... sometimes daily.

Nope. My absence of belief, and belief in the absence, of gods is very firm.
However I subscribe to the skeptical and scientific principles that ideas should keep being tested
and while I have absolutely no expectation whatsoever than anyone will ever present me with a
convincing argument for believing in gods or evidence for their existence, I am open to the possibility
that I could be wrong and thus must keep looking for evidence and arguments that might demonstrate
that I am wrong. However that is not why I am here.

• Your rejection of God is firm--- you know it to your bones--- and you consider this forum your missionary field: you are here only to spill the light of reason into the darkened minds of those who are lost to blinding religion. Nothing but pure philanthropy on your part.

Well if I do cause people to stop believing in gods that's a nice bonus... but it's not why I am here.

• You don't really think on your rejection of God that often, but when you do, you simply enjoy the lulz of arguing the point. Your thrill is best served when engaged with those who seem to have deeply vested interests. It's a pastime which has taken on its own life, however: you find yourself morbidly drawn to the flames even when heat no longer emanates, and cannot explain your fascination of constantly covering the same ground. It's like you're stuck in a Twilight Zone.

It is true that outside of these forums I seldom need think about this topic, although the odd person and
some news stories bring the topic up. And I do enjoy arguing [prefer debating] although it's not for the
'lulz' as you put it. However the rest... Nah, not me, not why I'm here.

• Your rejection of God contains a microscopic hope of failure. You come here daily to hear the squeak of the floor board in an empty house, to see the piercing light in the absolute blackness, to have the switch turn from off to on. You secretly and desperately want someone to change your mind.

Yeah... No, not even close.

Not why I am here...

Score of... D ... Must try Harder.

Originally posted by sonship
I think that the atheist is convicted that he is sinful.
I think that his reaction to this conviction is unusual perhaps.
He thinks a bigger Person could not exist because the projected wrong doings could not be in any proposed God.

I could be wrong. But I think some atheists simply project their own honestly but privately known faults out. Any Go ...[text shortened]... ay, I agree that by writing here everyday the atheist informs us how he thinks for a great deal.

Facts and logic are the only things that matter in a debate about any idea. Attacking the motivation of your opponent is ad hominem attack. The motivation of your opponents is irrelevant, and is also unknowable unless you are a mind reader.

Also, putting quotes around this: "A bigger version of me cannot exist. Any God would have to be a sinful being like me. That could not be so no God exists.", like you are quoting your opponent, when your opponent said no such thing, is particularly egregious behavior.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Are you saying that Satan is going to torture the prisoners in hell by forcing them to read your posts? 😉

Ohhh, that's mean.... of god 😉

Originally posted by PatNovak
Facts and logic are the only things that matter in a debate about any idea. Attacking the motivation of your opponent is ad hominem attack. The motivation of your opponents is irrelevant, and is also unknowable unless you are a mind reader.

Also, putting quotes around this ("A bigger version of me cannot exist. Any God would have to be a sinful being lik ...[text shortened]... uoting your opponent, when your opponent said no such thing, is particularly egregious behavior.

Particularly as it's not something I generally see atheists doing to theists.

We in general accept the theists at their word that they believe what they say they believe...

Too many theists do not do us the same courtesy.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]You really don't know how atheists think...
While the specifics are most assuredly varied, the patterns are fairly consistent and standard.
Predictable, even.

Your presence here says something about your thoughts. Let's examine the possibilities.

• Your rejection of God is tenuous, and you use the forum to strengthen your resolve. You re ...[text shortened]... ities I missed, but I think I covered the main ones.
Please tell me how close I got, won't you?[/b]

"Reject" really isn't the right word. I wouldn't say I 'reject' the Loch Ness Monster. I would say it does not exist. "Reject" might sound like I had met Nessy but turned down her offer of friendship.

I am closest to bullet 2). I am fairly sure there are no gods, but not quite 'to my bones'. However, I am not interested in winning converts. I discuss things here because I'm fascinated by human spirituality and how various people come to hold their beliefs. I also think that it helps us all to confront the strongest arguments from the other side.