The voice of God?

When are you jokers are going to realize that SwissGambit is taking youall for a ride? 😀

ThinkOfOne,
The start of anyone's life as a Christian is becoming a Christian. All else is a person trying to earn eternal life. If we don't start by putting faith in Christ first for eternal life, then trying to keep Christ's commandments means nothing for eternal salvation.

If you skip Christ, the Savior, don't expect God to do more than skip you for eternal life. If you want your keeping of Christ's commandments to mean something for your life, then believe in Christ as your Savior and Lord first. You must have the Son of God to have eternal life.

King James Version
==============
I John 5: 10-13
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
ThinkOfOne,
The start of anyone's life as a Christian is becoming a Christian. All else is a person trying to earn eternal life. If we don't start by putting faith in Christ first for eternal life, then trying to keep Christ's commandments means nothing for eternal salvation.

If you skip Christ, the Savior, don't expect God to do more than skip you ...[text shortened]... at ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Do you even bother to read and understand the posts of others? Or are you in such a hurry to post your "salvation by faith" dogma that you can't be bothered?

ThinkOfOne,
Salvation by grace through faith in Christ is clearly in the bible.

Salvation by works is clearly not in the bible. Doing good is for obedience and to be like God, but it is clearly not for earning eternal life.

Believing what others say, when they mean that they can work for their eternal life, is not the focus of doing good. Doing good is to please God, after a person becomes saved in Christ.

Christ came to save the Israelites who were given the Law of God to keep. But Christ came to be the final sacrifice for their sin. No more sin sacrifices were needed from then on. Israel leadership rejected God's way of salvation - Christ, not works

Therefore, they are not of Abraham spiritually.

I care about the people here that they put faith in Christ Jesus for their salvation and all that comes with faith in Christ(including justification). Being good will not get them with God.

King James Version
==============
Job 25: 4-6
How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.

How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Job 19: 25
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
ThinkOfOne,
Salvation by grace through faith in Christ is clearly in the bible.

Salvation by works is clearly not in the bible. Doing good is for obedience and to be like God, but it is clearly not for earning eternal life.

Believing what others say, when they mean that they can work for their eternal life, is not the focus of doing good. Doing ...[text shortened]... 5
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Seems I have an answer to my last post:

Do you even bother to read and understand the posts of others? Or are you in such a hurry to post your "salvation by faith" dogma that you can't be bothered?

Based upon this post (and others), seems quite clear that you are in such a hurry to post your "salvation by faith" dogma that you can't be bothered to read and understand the posts of others.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Seems I have an answer to my last post:

Do you even bother to read and understand the posts of others? Or are you in such a hurry to post your "salvation by faith" dogma that you can't be bothered?

Based upon this post (and others), seems quite clear that you are in such a hurry to post your "salvation by faith" dogma that you can't be bothered to read and understand the posts of others.

Question: When I was a Christian I did not subscribe to the "salvation by faith only" thing and, come to think of it, I wasn't even really aware that there was a "salvation by faith only" school of thought. Is it a relatively new idea? Has it come into prominence in the last decade or two?

Originally posted by FMF
Question: When I was a Christian I did not subscribe to the "salvation by faith only" thing and, come to think of it, I wasn't even really aware that there was a "salvation by faith only" school of thought. Is it a relatively new idea? Has it come into prominence in the last decade or two?

Martin Luther about 500 years ago started it. To do so he had to focus on a few passages by Paul and ignore Jesus Christ, James and John. In particular he did not like James for saying that faith without works is dead, and made some very derogatory remarks about James.

In the last few decades or so this kind of doctrine is what people want to hear because it matches well with a worldly selfish materialistic lifestyle. The essential elements of the doctrine include:
- faith alone gives eternal life ie just say you accept Christ and thats their version of what faith is.
- you are not required to do any good works
- your sin is not held against you
- you cannot lose your salvation no matter what kind of life you live.

Its a nice doctrine to full the churches and the pockets of the pastors .. but according to Jesus its a sure road to damnation.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Martin Luther about 500 years ago started it.

Thanks for your answer. Well, Martin Luther did not feature in my brand of Christianity back in the day. So that helps to explain my blind spot perhaps.

I'm back. I heard the voice again. This time, instead of panicking, I listened intently to hear it.

What he said to me gave me some assurance that, even though this change of direction is going to take a lot of work, I can eventually get there in the end. It's kind of personal, however, so I am going to leave it to the reader to decide if they really want to read what I was told.

Reveal Hidden Content

Originally posted by Rajk999
The essential elements of the doctrine include:
- faith alone gives eternal life ie just say you accept Christ and thats their version of what faith is.
- you are not required to do any good works
- your sin is not held against you
- you cannot lose your salvation no matter what kind of life you live.

The prominent proponents of this doctrine here on this Forum are...

sonship, FreakyKBH, KingOnPoint, Grampy Bobby and... who else?

Who are the regular Christian posters who dissent from this doctrine, apart from yourself? *

* I am aware that robbie carrobie refers to his supposed "works" an awful lot but have never been entirely sure whether it is just his vanity ~ as it seems to be - or a doctrinal matter.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
I'm back. I heard the voice again. This time, instead of panicking, I listened intently to hear it.

What he said to me gave me some assurance that, even though this change of direction is going to take a lot of work, I can eventually get there in the end. It's kind of personal, however, so I am going to leave it to the reader to decide if they really want to read what I was told.

[hidden]SG hidden message deleted as a courtesy[/hidden]

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
SG, in taking your anecdotal reference at face value I'm immediately reminded of Clive Lewis' candid confession:

“You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me. In the Trinity Term of 1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England. I did not then see what is now the most shining and obvious thing; the Divine humility which will accept a convert even on such terms. The Prodigal Son at least walked home on his own feet. But who can duly adore that Love which will open the high gates to a prodigal who is brought in kicking, struggling, resentful, and darting his eyes in every direction for a chance of escape? The words “compelle intrare,” compel them to come in, have been so abused by wicked men that we shudder at them; but, properly understood, they plumb the depth of the Divine mercy. The hardness of God is kinder than the softness of men, and His compulsion is our liberation.” - C.S. Lewis, Surprised by Joy Thread 155320 (Page 15)

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Sigh. All these years I have built up so many good arguments against it. I fear I am going to be kicking and screaming for awhile.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
But the voice told me to change. I don't think God wants me until I do.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
SG, you already have changed your mind. Doing so is a rational not an emotional decision. Now make more sound decisions.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]Building Blocks: Good decisions one at a time living life one day at a time... avoiding operation overthink as you go.

Note: You've previously established on this forum that twenty plus years ago you believed in Christ.
Today you're a Prodigal Son coming home... rest easy in the embrace of God's Unfailing Love.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I am going to think about all this for awhile.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Good night, SG. I salute your objectivity and courage. -Bob

SwissGambit, thanks for not carrying this counterfeit Christianity charade any further.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
SwissGambit, thanks for not carrying this counterfeit Christianity charade any further.

It provided an interesting thought experiment of sorts.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[quote]Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
SG, in taking your anecdotal reference at face value I'm immediately reminded of Clive Lewis' candid confession:

“You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so ea ...[text shortened]... /quote]
SwissGambit, thanks for not carrying this counterfeit Christianity charade any further.

I promise that this is the only day of the year that I will do this sort of thing. The other 364.25 days, you'll have good ol' straight-shootin' SG, as usual. 🙂

Originally posted by SwissGambit
I'm back. I heard the voice again. This time, instead of panicking, I listened intently to hear it.

What he said to me gave me some assurance that, even though this change of direction is going to take a lot of work, I can eventually get there in the end. It's kind of personal, however, so I am going to leave it to the reader to decide if they really want to read what I was told.

Superb. I am such a gullible idiot!

Penguin.

Originally posted by FMF
The prominent proponents of this doctrine here on this Forum are...

sonship, FreakyKBH, KingOnPoint, Grampy Bobby and... who else?

Who are the regular Christian posters who dissent from this doctrine, apart from yourself? *

* I am aware that robbie carrobie refers to his supposed "works" an awful lot but have never been entirely sure whether it is just his vanity ~ as it seems to be - or a doctrinal matter.

This sort of thinking is throughout the Bible. For example, Rahab the prostitute comes to mind. Here we have a "Gentile" prostitute who placed her faith in God and provided protection for the spies sent by Joshua. For her act of faith, her sins were absolved as she was not only the only person spared in the city, but she later became part of the blood line of Christ.

Jesus drove home the point when people reached out to him in faith. He would turn to them and say that not only are you healed, but your sins are forgiven you. This made the religious leaders of the day want to kill him. The point is driven home as the two thieves are dying on the cross next to him, both of which are sinners. One reaches out in faith and the other does not. One is saved and the other not so much.

If you think about it the doctrine is not so hard to comprehend. If God's will is what is best for you and the rest of the world, then simply agreeing with his will produces good fruit. You can either be a part of it or the other end that fights it. If you are for it then you are on the side of righteousness. It has nothing to do with you being "good" per say, rather, it is more about agreeing with the source of all that is already good and being a part of it.

As for people who think that they are doing good but are not in communication with God, Peter thought he was doing "good" when he drew a sword to defend Jesus from going to the cross, but Jesus rebuked him. Or how about when Jesus tried to explain to Peter that he would soon die for them. Peter forbad Jesus from talking this way and the reply from Jesus was startling. He told Satan to get behind him!!