The Wisdom of Witness Lee

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

'And the LORD said to me: The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds.'

Jeremiah 14:14

Ah, our resident Bible thumping Atheist strikes again with his knowledge of Scriptu ...[text shortened]... Remember Witness Lee giving all due credit to Christians BEFORE him, even in corrupted Christendom.

You have handed your Bible over to a wolf and allowed him to instruct you on how to devour it.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

@sonship

'For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.'

2 Corinthians 11:13-15

So you are AGREEING then with the New Testament.

Witness Lee warns, and it is a bad, bad thing he is saying about Christianity.

You open your handy dandy Atheist's "Quote a Bible Verse to a Christian" handbook and do essentially the same kind of exposing, and it is OK.

Which side of your mouth do you want to use to argue ?

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
[quote] @sonship

'For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.'

2 Corinthians 11:13-15
[/quot ...[text shortened]... he same kind of exposing, and it is OK.

Which side of your mouth do you want to use to argue ?

'Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, as well as Judaism, all [have] become an organization of Satan.'

Such mutterings by Lee are warned against in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15:

'For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.'

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

You have handed your Bible over to a wolf and allowed him to instruct you on how to devour it.

Are you making sense ?
Devour it ?
Devour what ?

What part of the Bible did I hand over to him ?
And why are you using your handy skeptic's "Quote to a Christian" handbook to say such MEAN THINGS about teachers among God's people ?

SO THEN, when Lee says Satan has gained too much influence in Christianity, YOU NOW AGREE ??

@sonship said
@Ghost-of-a-Duke

You have handed your Bible over to a wolf and allowed him to instruct you on how to devour it.

Are you making sense ?
Devour it ?
Devour what ?

What part of the Bible did I hand over to him ?
And why are you using your handy skeptic's "Quote to a Christian" handbook to say such MEAN THINGS about teachers among God's people ?

SO THEN, when Lee says Satan has gained too much influence in Christianity, YOU NOW AGREE ??

You handed over 'interpretation,' 'understanding.'

'Devour', as in 'consume', 'ingest'.

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

'Roman Catholicism and Protestantism, as well as Judaism, all [have] become an organization of Satan.'

So then, if you argue that Roman Catholicism and Protestantism are organizations totally under God's control instead, then why do you not listen to them? Why then do you remain an unbelieving A-theist instead ?

So what is OF GOD then you intend to resist for the entirety of your life remaining committed to God not existing ?

Such mutterings by Lee are warned against in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15:

So then, Second Corinthians 11:13-15 has WARNED YOU, and you STILL embrace the teachers which say that God doesn't exist ?

1.) Instead of false apostles you intend to follow the teaching of TRUE apostles. Then why are you an Athiest?

2.) Instead of being deceived by those who transformed themselves into phony apostles of Christ, how come the real apostles of Christ you RESIST for your whole life, clinging to Atheism?

3.) "And no wonder, for Satan himself transfigures himself into an angel of light" (v.14) [/b]

But the real and genuine messengers of light you reject for your whole life, clinging to your belief that there is no God?

Have you considered the word "To him to whom much is given, much will be expected."

Since you are so "IN THE KNOW" about what the Bible teaches you, don't you see that you will be ALL THE MORE responsible ? YOU KNEW! YOU KNEW and disbelieved in the God of light and His servants in the light.

Is it worth it ?

You KNEW ALL ABOUT false prophets coming into the world. Then WHY did you cling to the mother of all false teachings that there is no God ??

'For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.'

Find then who you accept as a genuine servant of Christ then to YOUR recognition and discard your atheism for repentance and faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus.

It doesn't have to be Witness Lee, you know ?

@sonship

May answer you tomorrow sonship. Am retiring for the night. (So no deadlines for my replies if you please).

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

You handed over 'interpretation,' 'understanding.'

'Devour', as in 'consume', 'ingest'.

Witness Lee taught us all how to PRAYREAD the Bible.

Not his invention. But his emphasis on mixing reading the Bible with PRAYING with the words of the Bible.

FEW, FEW, FEW other Christian teachers have ever done so much teach Christians to go directly to the WORD of God holding the Head of the Church - Christ as the Holy Spirit, PRAYING, to get enlightenment on what is in the Bible.

Now I have to be a tiny bit rude.
YOU, Ghost-of-a-Duke, don't know what you're talking about in your self CONFIDENT babbling about I turned over to Witness Lee the Bible.

Whew! I managed not to be TOO rude.

Now learn something about Lee teaching Christians about praying with the Bible themselves for nourishment and for insight -

Pray-Reading the Word by Witness Lee

A sample to get you started.

PRAY-READING THE WORD
When a baby is born, his most immediate need is to take some milk for nourishment. Without nourishment the new babe will not only fail to grow properly, but will soon become very weak and eventually even die. After we are saved and born again, our most immediate need also is that we learn how to take in the Lord as our spiritual milk and nourishment. Without this spiritual nourishment, we also have no way to grow properly and will in a short time be spiritually dead.
...
THE WORD OF GOD BEING
FOOD TO US
In 1 Peter 2:2-3 we have a most important passage. “As newborn babes, long for the guileless milk of the word in order that by it you may grow unto salvation, if you have tasted that the Lord is good.” These verses are important to us because they tell us clearly how to taste the Lord: drink “the guileless [pure] milk of the Word.” If we would taste Christ, we must take into us the milk of the word. Then we will be nourished for spiritual growth. Praise the Lord, the Bible says tasted! It does not say that we know this aspect or that aspect about the Lord, but that we taste the Lord. When we drink the milk of the Word, we are actually tasting the Lord. Therefore, the way for us to taste the Lord is simply by drinking the milk of the Word. The Word is not only for us to study or learn, but even more for us to taste. The way the Lord nourishes His Body is by His Word. If we desire to enjoy the Lord and be nourished by the Lord, we must come to the Word to taste the Lord.

https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=1A0306

@sonship said
@FMF

Daily rote learned atheist doctrine there.

Maybe you could learn to make it rhyme ?

I don't really have a "doctrine" though, do I? I just have my personal testimony, my perspectives, and my responses to things you claim. It also seems from your comment that you don't know what the term "rote-learned" means. It certainly doesn't apply to me.

@sonship

How do you respond to criticisms of prayer-reading that it is simply meaningless repetition and disengages the brain?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
@sonship

How do you respond to criticisms of prayer-reading that it is simply meaningless repetition and disengages the brain?

Not at me, but we are told that we should say fixed prayers, and we should say them meaningfully.

Of course, we are not saying that it is a sin to accidentally let a few out while distracted or to accidentally fall too far into a rhythm, but it happens.

It's a lot like meditating: sometimes you do a good job controlling your conscience, and other times you don't.

BTW -- there was a lot of text up there from Sonship. You sure you covered it all?

@Ghost-of-a-Duke

How do you respond to criticisms of prayer-reading that it is simply meaningless repetition and disengages the brain?

We dealt with those critics too. The co-workers of Brother Lee published a book called "Lord, Thou Saidst" which chronicled how Christians have prayed over and with the words of the Bible down through the centuries.

1.) This was very good things said by Christians in Protestantism and Roman Catholicism neutralizing the suspicion that we believe NOTHING ever happened there under God's blessing.

2.) The book gave a biblical foundation for mixing the word of God with praying.

3.) The book proved that the local churches didn't invent something new but were RECOVERING something neglected or UNDERAPPRECIATED.

There is hardly a Christian who has not at one time or another, without perhaps realizing it, mixed the Bible with their PRAYING. It is something many Christian did rather unconsciously.

Witness Lee brought it to the forefront and encouraged Christians to do it more and more. Witness Lee said in essence -
" You know what it is. DO IT. DO IT all the more. Don't just sit and listen to sermons, messages, teachings. ALSO PRAY-READ the Bible and God will SURELY speak to you expressly. " [paraphrase]

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13155059-lord-thou-saidst

And other Christian teachers not meeting with a local church have before and afterwards encouraged praying with the Bible.

How do you respond to criticisms of prayer-reading that it is simply meaningless repetition and disengages the brain?

I will write out here an example of how I might PRAY-READ a verse in the Bible. Perhaps some will see how both my innermost spirit is exercised in faith and my mind and intellect are also engaged.

The verse I will pray read will be John 1:1-4

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not one thing came into being which has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men."

In the beginning. Thank you Lord Jesus. You are in the beginning. Lord I begin with YOU today. Amen.
In the beginning Amen. Lord Jesus In the beginning Amen Lord. Be my beginning too Lord Jesus.

In the beginning was the Word, Amen. "was the Word" ... Amen Lord Jesus. Amen to the Word. Amen to YOU Lord Jesus.

Was the Word, and the Word was with God ... Thankyou Lord Jesus. 'WITH GOD". Amen. Lord Jesus .. YOU with God. Lord I touch YOU and I touch God. Thankyou Lord Jesus.

And the Word was with God, and the Word was God.. Amen. Praise You God. Amen, Lord Jesus WITH GOD. Amen to You Lord. Amen to the Word Lord. Amen to being WITH GOD. Amen. the Word was with God. Amen!

And the Word was God. Amen Lord. Praise the Lord! Amen to the Word. Amen to WITH God. Amen to WAS GOD. Lord Jesus, You are the living Word of God. Lord Jesus You are God living in me. Lord You are my new beginning. Praise You Lord Jesus.

All things .. Amen ... ALL THINGS ... Amen Lord Jesus. Amen for ALL THINGS. Lord You are the Source of it all Lord. I praise You. Hallelujah ... "ALL THINGS came into being through Him". Amen. All things, Amen Lord.
Lord thankyou for the universe. Thankyou for All things Lord. Lord we are all through You. Lord Jesus You are the Creator. Through You Lord ... all things. AMEN!

In Him was life. Amen. In You is LIFE Lord. Amen. In Him was life. Amen Lord Jesus. I turn to YOU for life. Lord Jesus, in YOU is life. Lord You are my life. Lord You are the eternal life. Lord You are the divine life. Lord Jesus In You is Life. Praise You Lord. Amen.

And the life ... Amen for the life. And the life was the LIGHT! Praise You God. Your life is the LIGHT. Lord Jesus, YOU are the light of men. Lord , You are the light of life. Lord You are our light. Amen. In You is the life. Lord in You is the light of men. Lord Jesus! the Light of men and women. Lord Jesus You are the light of the world.

Lord, I begin today with You. Lord, You are the Word, You are the Life, You are the One through whom all things came into being. Lord, You are the life, Lord Jesus, You are the light of men. Lord open to You this morning. Lord, I receive You light. Amen. Lord I receive Your LIFE ... Amen. Lord Jesus I love You. Praise You Lord Jesus .. My Light, My Lord, My Life, Amen. Amen ... Praise the Lord.
==========================================================
This is an example of my individual way to PRAY-READ a few verses in John 1.
Next time my prayer may be different as the Holy Spirit impresses my heart.

You can PRAY-READ a whole chapter of the Bible and be really nourished.

You can get one or two others and PRAY-READ verses in the Bible together.
It is fun. It is edifying. It is encouraging. And it is a way to get everyone involved and out of passivity.

And it is a way to learn and teach EVERYONE how to pray.

@philokalia said
Not at me, but we are told that we should say fixed prayers, and we should say them meaningfully.

Of course, we are not saying that it is a sin to accidentally let a few out while distracted or to accidentally fall too far into a rhythm, but it happens.

It's a lot like meditating: sometimes you do a good job controlling your conscience, and other times you don't.

BTW -- there was a lot of text up there from Sonship. You sure you covered it all?

With sonship there is 'always' too much text. It is not reasonable for someone to cover it all in their reply. (Sometimes I return to find 4 posts in a row directed at me). The best we can do is respond to any pertinent points.

Edit: If there are any.

You do know, though, that there is a disconnect between what two people find to be important.

Perhaps Son should make his posts more succinct -- and he could do taht with more confidence if people were to respond to it systematically.

I am not accusing you of this, but there are posters here who are really all about deflecting & fixating on single points pertinent to them, and ignoring the rest.

Not naming names.